|
If they didn’t care at all, narrator and other apps wouldn’t have bv been improved apon.  Â
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 3:19 AM To: skypeenglish@groups.io Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs  I don't put too much effort, and I don't consider them negative. I just compared 2 products, one that I like and another one that I don't like. That's all. It wouldn't be helpful at all to contact the developers, because they care about productivity and profit, and developing a web interface is much more productive than developing a native GUI, plus that the main target is the sighted users. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs 100% more effort and time? Really?  How much effort and time do you put in to composing the emails you do finding every negative thing you can? that's wasted energy and effort that would have been better spent on learning something, or better yet, composing missives to the developers and entering in to civil discourse with them so you can see the improvements you'd like taking place.  On 20/11/2018 16:57, Octavian Rasnita wrote:  I'm also tired to explain you that not all the people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that it is hard for you to understand. Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody. If something is not perfect, we should accept it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about it. If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if it is so hard for you to understand? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending on your screenreader, then you can type away. It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut up.  On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita wrote:  Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they can see the entire window, they can see the context very fast. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me. On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote: Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved. The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface. This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way. The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Sarah k Alawami
No, the web UI is built into skype itself. You can install chrome to use it as a browser but ou do not need chrime to work with electron.
Take care
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:44, João nuno antunes wrote:
or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?
Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:
because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be
good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so.
those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the
better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was
on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.
Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the
brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.
Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you.
either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
Â
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
Â
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was
different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and
on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to
stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom
line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
Â
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
Â
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
--
João Nuno Antunes
|
|
|
yes, admitedly, so do I.
however, to venture further down this path would be going beyond the scope of this forum.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 21/11/2018 07:35, João nuno antunes wrote: right. however, I love google chrome...
Às 20:53 de 20-11-2018, Doug Lee escreveu:
You do not have to install Chrome to use Skype 8 (Electron), because Skype 8 comes with its own instance of Chrome.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 08:44:46PM +0000, Jo??o nuno antunes wrote:
or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?
�s 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:
because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an
announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted
on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the
same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good
because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or
another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's
clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many
years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us
that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger
was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we
also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface
that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I
might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either
newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its
place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of
the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought
Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then,
that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.
Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching,
pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have
to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key
on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands
to do that I'm sure.
Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list,
so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front
of you.
either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord
split ya.
On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
�
Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from
you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed
that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain
number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those
other list members should not send those messages? Or something like
that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages
against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of
messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my
opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that
I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their
opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken
record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but
I am not?
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]Sarah k Alawami
To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We
have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or
the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the
minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new
ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as
a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
�
Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be
disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to
pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [3]Shaun Oliver
To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with
Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had.
build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we
do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and
positive, instead of negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If
you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access
Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
�
"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well,
but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you
use them.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [5]Shaun Oliver
To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [7]John Holcomb II
To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
[9]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter
--
Jo�o Nuno Antunes
References
1. mailto:marrie12@gmail.com
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@gmail.com
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:blindman75@gmail.com
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:jhii926@gmail.com
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&;utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3556
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
12. mailto:superman1986@live.com.pt?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
|
|
|
that being said, neither is necessary for Skype Electron, as Doug
already mentioned, it contains a self contained instance of Chrome
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 21/11/2018 07:26, Stephen Troy
wrote:
No. it’s not
necessary for you to have chrome. You can use either firefox
or internet explorer.
Â
Â
Â
or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google
chrome?
Â
Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver
escreveu:
because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's
an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it
is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up
and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how
it will never be good because it is already worse and how
they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or,
better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to
bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before
you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us that
watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN
Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of
things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as
it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly
much for the better part of ten years, I might add, was very
likely to be done away with and something either newer or
better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its
place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the
way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when
MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we
knew even then, that Skype was going to become their
flagship Messenger service.
Â
Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one
bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all
and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must
be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a
strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.
Â
Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on
this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore
what's right in front of you.
Â
either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the
good lord split ya.
On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

Sarah,
I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any
answer from you.
Do
you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this
list?
Do
you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
You
say that "we
are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
who are those "we"?
Were
there votes made among all members of the list and you
observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And
btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if
a certain number of members don't like the opinions of
other list members, those other list members should
not send those messages? Or something like that?
I
didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send
strong messages against other list members, but yes, a
list member sent that kind of messages for me just
because he didn't like my opinion.
You
said that I sound like a broken record just because I
told my opinion for more times about the Skype version
I like and the one that I don't like. But what about
the other people that expressed their opinion but
their opinion was different? They don't sound like a
broken record only because their opinion matches
yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Then
sit down, write your feedback to skype directly
and not here. We have already heard it. If you you
don't like it there is always zoom or the delete
key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we
are starting to not like it. You in this case and
on this list are the minority as you are I hink
the only one who is hating skype and its new ways.
Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave.
I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take
care
On
19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes
you are right. We are a minority and we will
always be disadvantaged because of this.
This is what I am saying. But this doesn't
mean that we shouldn't say this just because
we can't change it.
Nothing
will be changed in our favour if we all
would continue to pretend that it is all
right when it is not all right for all of
us.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's
not my point at all. in fact, you know what?
forget it.
I'm
done. Time and Time again, people have given
you solutions and whatnot and other feedback
to help you improve your efficiency with
Skype, and you still complain that it is
worse than what you had. build a bridge, get
over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and
no amount of belly aching on your part nor
anybody else's will extend the life of Skype
Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and
rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it
or not, are a minority, and we do not affect
a major corperation's bottom line as much as
we'd all wish we could, save for those to
whom products are specifically designed and
marketed towards us.
Whenever
I see an email from you regarding Skype, it
is a never ending litany of charges against
it's ease of use, that it's worse than what
you had, it's less accessible, it's less
efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the
other.
Â
That
is why I say you should expend that energy
you put in to thinking up and cmposing that
litany of charges, in to learning Skype or
whatever varients thereof, and actually be
constructive and positive, instead of
negative and disruptive.
Â
We've
heard every single complaint you've raised
before, and reitterating them here, is not
going to change what currently is. If you
feel that strongly about it, contact the MS
Disability Access Desk and kindly present
them with your arguments.
*SMH*
Â
On
20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien,
if you put as much energy in to learning
the new skype as you do complaining
about it, you'd have nothing to complain
about.".
I
already told you that this is not true.
I put a lot of efforts in learning to
use Windows 7, and I use it every day in
the last years, but I still consider it
worse and less accessible than Windows
XP.
After
I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be
able to use it very well, but that "very
well" would still be worse than using
Skype 7 for me.
Don't
think that all the people use the
applications the same way you use them.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype
Blogs
so
do I, on both platforms, windows and
mac. IOS and android, well, that's a
whole other ballgame, but, it's
certainly better than it ever was.
Â
Octavien,
if you put as much energy in to learning
the new skype as you do complaining
about it, you'd have nothing to complain
about.
Â
On
20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
I
don't mind the web inerface, in
fact, I find myself navigating a
lot faster in the web interface
than the older interface but thats
just me.
On
19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:
Any
improvement is good, but
these are small improvements
while bigger issues will
never be solved.
The
biggest issue: Skype 8 uses
a web interface.
This
issue might be worked around
if the scripts will turn the
virtual buffer off
automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype
will be fully accessible
this way.
The
best news is that for the
moment Skype 7 still works.
Too bad that it will
probably stop working soon.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements
in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
--
João Nuno Antunes
|
|
|
right. however, I love google chrome...
Às 20:53 de 20-11-2018, Doug Lee escreveu:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
You do not have to install Chrome to use Skype 8 (Electron), because Skype 8 comes with its own instance of Chrome.
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 08:44:46PM +0000, Jo??o nuno antunes wrote:
or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?
�s 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:
because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an
announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted
on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the
same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good
because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or
another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's
clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many
years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us
that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger
was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we
also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface
that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I
might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either
newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its
place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of
the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought
Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then,
that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.
Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching,
pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have
to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key
on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands
to do that I'm sure.
Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list,
so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front
of you.
either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord
split ya.
On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
�
Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from
you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed
that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain
number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those
other list members should not send those messages? Or something like
that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages
against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of
messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my
opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that
I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their
opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken
record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but
I am not?
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]Sarah k Alawami
To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We
have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or
the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the
minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new
ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as
a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
�
Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be
disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to
pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [3]Shaun Oliver
To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with
Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had.
build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we
do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and
positive, instead of negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If
you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access
Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
�
"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well,
but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you
use them.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [5]Shaun Oliver
To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [7]John Holcomb II
To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
[9]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter
--
Jo�o Nuno Antunes
References
1. mailto:marrie12@gmail.com
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@gmail.com
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:blindman75@gmail.com
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:jhii926@gmail.com
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&;utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3556
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
12. mailto:superman1986@live.com.pt?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
--
João Nuno Antunes
|
|
|
No. it’s not necessary for you to have chrome. You can use either firefox or internet explorer.  Â
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of João nuno antunes
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:45 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?  Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu: because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.  Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.  Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you.  either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:  Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you. Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list? Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours? You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"? Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages? And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that? I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion. You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod. Take care On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:  Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it. Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it. I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us. Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.  That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.  We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments. *SMH*  On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:  "Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.". I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP. After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me. Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.  Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.  On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote: I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me. On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote: Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved. The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface. This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way. The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
-- João Nuno Antunes
|
|
|
no, you don't.
Skype is a self contained unit, thus, no need for Chrome.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 21/11/2018 07:14, João nuno antunes
wrote:
or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google
chrome?
Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver
escreveu:
because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an
announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is
posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and
pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it
will never be good because it is already worse and how they
need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet,
bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was
considered being put to bed many years before you even had an
inkling of it being so. those of us that watch trends and the
like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype
was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that
the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that
hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I
might add, was very likely to be done away with and something
either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to
take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger
went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards.
and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for
Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become
their flagship Messenger service.
Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one
bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all
and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be
so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a
strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.
Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on
this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore
what's right in front of you.
either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the
good lord split ya.
On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:

Sarah, I asked you some time
ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive
remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks
that are the same as yours?
Â
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please
tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all
members of the list and you observed that all list members
don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule of this list
that tells that if a certain number of members don't like
the opinions of other list members, those other list
members should not send those messages? Or something like
that?
I didn't send messages with swears,
and I didn't send strong messages against other list
members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages
for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
Â
You said that I sound like a broken
record just because I told my opinion for more times about
the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like.
But what about the other people that expressed their
opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound
like a broken record only because their opinion matches
yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November
20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly
and not here. We have already heard it. If you you
don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key.
You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
starting to not like it. You in this case and on this
list are the minority as you are I hink the only one
who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used
to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a
list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right.
We are a minority and we will always be
disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am
saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't
say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be
changed in our favour if we all would continue
to pretend that it is all right when it is not
all right for all of us.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original
Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know
what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have
given you solutions and whatnot and other
feedback to help you improve your efficiency
with Skype, and you still complain that it is
worse than what you had. build a bridge, get
over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody
else's will extend the life of Skype Classic.
Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so.
We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a
minority, and we do not affect a major
corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
wish we could, save for those to whom products
are specifically designed and marketed towards
us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding
Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges
against it's ease of use, that it's worse than
what you had, it's less accessible, it's less
efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the
other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy
you put in to thinking up and cmposing that
litany of charges, in to learning Skype or
whatever varients thereof, and actually be
constructive and positive, instead of negative
and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've
raised before, and reitterating them here, is
not going to change what currently is. If you
feel that strongly about it, contact the MS
Disability Access Desk and kindly present them
with your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42,
Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien,
if you put as much energy in to learning
the new skype as you do complaining about
it, you'd have nothing to complain
about.".
Â
I already told you that
this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
learning to use Windows 7, and I use it
every day in the last years, but I still
consider it worse and less accessible than
Windows XP.
After I will learn to
use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very
well, but that "very well" would still be
worse than using Skype 7 for me.
Â
Don't think that all the
people use the applications the same way you
use them.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original
Message -----
Sent:
Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and
mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole
other ballgame, but, it's certainly better
than it ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to
learning the new skype as you do complaining
about it, you'd have nothing to complain
about.
On 20/11/2018
05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in
fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the
older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:
Any
improvement is good, but these
are small improvements while
bigger issues will never be
solved.
Â
The
biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a
web interface.
This
issue might be worked around if
the scripts will turn the
virtual buffer off automaticly
and it will use only the PC
cursor, and of course, if this
way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
Â
The
best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad
that it will probably stop
working soon.
Â
--Octavian
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29
PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
--
João Nuno Antunes
|
|
|
You do not have to install Chrome to use Skype 8 (Electron), because Skype 8 comes with its own instance of Chrome.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 08:44:46PM +0000, Jo??o nuno antunes wrote: or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome? Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu: because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service. Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure. Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you. either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya. On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote: ¿ Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you. Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list? Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours? You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"? Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages? And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that? I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion. You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not? --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: [1]Sarah k Alawami To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod. Take care On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote: ¿ Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it. Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us. --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: [3]Shaun Oliver To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it. I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us. Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other. That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive. We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments. *SMH* On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote: ¿ "Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.". I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP. After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me. Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them. --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: [5]Shaun Oliver To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was. Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about. On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote: I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me. On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote: Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved. The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface. This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way. The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon. --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: [7]John Holcomb II To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs [9] https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit ter -- João Nuno Antunes References 1. mailto:marrie12@gmail.com 2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io 3. mailto:blindman75@gmail.com 4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io 5. mailto:blindman75@gmail.com 6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io 7. mailto:jhii926@gmail.com 8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io 9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&;utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter 10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3556 11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs 12. mailto:superman1986@live.com.pt?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs 13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874 14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post 15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/ 16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874 17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io 18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged-- Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.orgLevel Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.comDon't be afraid your life will end; be afraid that itwill never begin. -- Grace Hansen
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or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?
Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:
because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be
good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so.
those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the
better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was
on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.
Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the
brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.
Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you.
either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
Â
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
Â
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was
different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and
on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to
stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom
line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
Â
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
Â
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
--
João Nuno Antunes
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Sarah k Alawami
Oh way to twist my words. No, you are a broken record because you say the same things about skype etc and not constructivally, not at all. It just looks like wining and moanig and all the other crud most of my blind folks I know of do. Instead of doing that, take action.. My complaints and feedback I've already sent to microsoft in the form of bug reports. Why not do the same and be proactive instead of reactive. Complain to mocrocrap and see what they say.
Good luck.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20 Nov 2018, at 11:11, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got
any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on
this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as
yours?
Â
You say that "we are starting
to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and
you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells
that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list
members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something
like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send
strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that
kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
Â
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I
told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I
don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but
their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because
their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have
already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete
key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like
it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the
only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left
behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a minority and we
will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But
this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all
would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for
all of us.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype,
and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge,
get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching
on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic.
Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to
admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major
corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for
those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards
us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending
litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you
had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or
it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking
up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever
varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of
negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you
feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and
kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much
energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it,
you'd have nothing to complain about.".
Â
I already told you that this is not true. I put a
lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in
the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than
Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able
to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than
using Skype 7 for me.
Â
Don't think that all the people use the
applications the same way you use them.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever
was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating
a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats
just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these
are small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if
the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it
will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will
be fully accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
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|
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Sarah k Alawami
It will be bad, when skype 7 stops, and it will, so either get with it and use skype 8 and love hate it, or leave. And you did not say yu are the minority but I know how to read between the lines and the truth is, you are a minority, you and people who do not want to submit feedback to devs and just complain on lists and forum boards.. I know several members on other list swho do that and we all tell them the same thing eithe ruse what you are given and submit feedback or go to somethingn else.
Take care
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20 Nov 2018, at 11:06, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

You keep telling me that I am a minority, but I
don't understand what this has something to do with the fact that I consider
that skype 8 is worse than Skype 7.
Do I said that I consider that Skype 8 is worse
than Skype 7 for all blind users?
If I would do that, then yes, you could tell me
that I am wrong, and that no, for many people Skype 8 is very good.
I just said that Skype 8 is worse for me than Skype
7, and it doesn't matter if millions of blind people consider Skype 8 as good as
Skype 7, for me Skype 7 will remain better.
Â
Or did I said that those who consider Skype 7
better is a majority?
No, I didn't. I just said that I just like more
skype 7. That's all.
Is that something so bad if I still like Skype 7
and all accessible native apps better than web-based apps?
Â
But no, probably the problem is elsewhere, because
you and some other list member I think that agreed that there is a minority that
prefers Skype 7, so you accept that some people prefer Skype 7.
Â
Do you like only positive opinions of other
people about the things that you like?
I hope that it is not the case.
If you buy something, a phone, a car, a dress, and
ask your friend his/her opinion about that thing, do you feel bad if your friend
tells you that he or she doesn't like that thing at all?
Â
I am just trying to see what's the problem with
hearing other people's opinions if they don't match with yours.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:11
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Who said anyting about pressing two keys. I just use one and it is awesome.
You again are the minority here.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I'm also tired to explain you that not all the
people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that
it is hard for you to understand.
Â
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more
effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should accept
it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend
that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about
it.
Â
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have
a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I
don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if
it is so hard for you to understand?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018
12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to
play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're
there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending
on your screenreader, then you can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you
knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason
you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and
end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put
up, or shut up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be
faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that
the web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new
in that interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we
can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then
do this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the
interfaces that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not
a problem because they can see the entire window, they can see the
context very fast.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a
lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats
just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if
the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will
use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be
fully accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
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|
|
because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an
announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted
on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the
same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good
because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or
another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's
clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many
years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us
that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger
was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover,
we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an
interface that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of
ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and
something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was
going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when
Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the
cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for
Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their
flagship Messenger service.
Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one
bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and
how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard
to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the
brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.
Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this
list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right
in front of you.
either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good
lord split ya.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

Sarah, I asked you some time ago,
but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive
remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that
are the same as yours?
Â
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell
me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of
the list and you observed that all list members don't like my
messages?
And btw, is there a rule of this list
that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the
opinions of other list members, those other list members
should not send those messages? Or something like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I
didn't send strong messages against other list members, but
yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just
because he didn't like my opinion.
Â
You said that I sound like a broken record
just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype
version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about
the other people that expressed their opinion but their
opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record
only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK
but I am not?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20,
2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and
not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like
it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to
sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like
it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as
you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its
new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or
leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We
are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged
because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because
we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed
in our favour if we all would continue to pretend
that it is all right when it is not all right for
all of us.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Tuesday,
November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what?
forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given
you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help
you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you
still complain that it is worse than what you had.
build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here
to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part
nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype
Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a
minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's
bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save
for those to whom products are specifically designed
and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype,
it is a never ending litany of charges against it's
ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's
less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this,
it's that, or it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you
put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of
charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients
thereof, and actually be constructive and positive,
instead of negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised
before, and reitterating them here, is not going to
change what currently is. If you feel that strongly
about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and
kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42,
Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien,
if you put as much energy in to learning the
new skype as you do complaining about it,
you'd have nothing to complain about.".
Â
I already told you that this
is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning
to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the
last years, but I still consider it worse and
less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use
Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but
that "very well" would still be worse than using
Skype 7 for me.
Â
Don't think that all the
people use the applications the same way you use
them.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Monday,
November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac.
IOS and android, well, that's a whole other
ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to
learning the new skype as you do complaining
about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54,
Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I
find myself navigating a lot faster in the
web interface than the older interface but
thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
Any
improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.
Â
The
biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This
issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer
off automaticly and it will use only
the PC cursor, and of course, if
this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
Â
The
best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it
will probably stop working soon.
Â
--Octavian
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype
Blogs
|
|
|

Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got
any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on
this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as
yours?
Â
You say that "we are starting
to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and
you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells
that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list
members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something
like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send
strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that
kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
Â
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I
told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I
don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but
their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because
their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have
already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete
key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like
it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the
only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left
behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a minority and we
will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But
this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all
would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for
all of us.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype,
and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge,
get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching
on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic.
Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to
admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major
corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for
those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards
us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending
litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you
had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or
it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking
up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever
varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of
negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you
feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and
kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much
energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it,
you'd have nothing to complain about.".
Â
I already told you that this is not true. I put a
lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in
the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than
Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able
to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than
using Skype 7 for me.
Â
Don't think that all the people use the
applications the same way you use them.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever
was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating
a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats
just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these
are small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if
the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it
will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will
be fully accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|

You keep telling me that I am a minority, but I
don't understand what this has something to do with the fact that I consider
that skype 8 is worse than Skype 7.
Do I said that I consider that Skype 8 is worse
than Skype 7 for all blind users?
If I would do that, then yes, you could tell me
that I am wrong, and that no, for many people Skype 8 is very good.
I just said that Skype 8 is worse for me than Skype
7, and it doesn't matter if millions of blind people consider Skype 8 as good as
Skype 7, for me Skype 7 will remain better.
Â
Or did I said that those who consider Skype 7
better is a majority?
No, I didn't. I just said that I just like more
skype 7. That's all.
Is that something so bad if I still like Skype 7
and all accessible native apps better than web-based apps?
Â
But no, probably the problem is elsewhere, because
you and some other list member I think that agreed that there is a minority that
prefers Skype 7, so you accept that some people prefer Skype 7.
Â
Do you like only positive opinions of other
people about the things that you like?
I hope that it is not the case.
If you buy something, a phone, a car, a dress, and
ask your friend his/her opinion about that thing, do you feel bad if your friend
tells you that he or she doesn't like that thing at all?
Â
I am just trying to see what's the problem with
hearing other people's opinions if they don't match with yours.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:11
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Who said anyting about pressing two keys. I just use one and it is awesome.
You again are the minority here.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I'm also tired to explain you that not all the
people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that
it is hard for you to understand.
Â
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more
effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should accept
it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend
that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about
it.
Â
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have
a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I
don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if
it is so hard for you to understand?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018
12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to
play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're
there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending
on your screenreader, then you can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you
knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason
you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and
end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put
up, or shut up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be
faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that
the web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new
in that interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we
can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then
do this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the
interfaces that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not
a problem because they can see the entire window, they can see the
context very fast.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a
lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats
just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if
the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will
use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be
fully accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
LOL
I just read your note, Mike.
Perfect reasoning.
I tend to use what's available as long as it works.
But, when it doesn't, and I have to learn the new version, skype
for example, I'll do just that.
Sure: It's a pain in the butt. But, even in online life, stuff
happens, and us blind people just need to live in the real world,
and move on; even for a stubborn Canadian like me. LOL
I still say I should be able to buy a TV at half price, because,
I only use half of it; the audio. lol
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20/11/2018 12:48 p.m., Mike DeZinno wrote:
Dear Serah,
Thanks so much for speaking up!
the lack of development of tech for the blind isn't that the
blind are a
minority, there are millions of us around the world and we could
be a
very powerful economic demographic accept for one little fact.
What's the real minority is the number of blind people who are
willing to
use their own money to pay for their unique tech needs.
Skype is free!
Doug Lee's work creating, updating, and maintaining cutting edge
Skype
scripts is all free also.
heck, even membership in this community is free!
Maybe if we had to pay for Skype and the scripts to access it
there would
be fewer complaints
You and Doug and the other mods here also have personal lives
and bills
to pay outside of this forum.
Those who constantly complain contribute what? to this group?
There is a lot of tech not accessible by the blind, like your
radio
digital dials. an and radio has been around for over 100
years! LOL
Lets start an on-line group to complain about radio, and then
TV, and
then all the cars that the blind can't drive or planes we can't
fly
yet! LOL
Thanks giving is a few days away, maybe it's time to be a little
more
thankful for what we have been blessed with rather than focused
on what
we feel entitled to have that we haven't received.
Mike in SC
At 12:09 PM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
minority
Then
sit down, write your feedback
to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If
you you
don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend
to sound
like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You
in this case
and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only
one who is
hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left
behind, or
leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a
minority and
we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is
what I am
saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this
just because we
can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would
continue to pretend
that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
Â
--Octavian
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: Shaun Oliver
- To: skypeenglish@groups.io
- Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
- Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
- that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what?
forget it.
- I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you
solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you
improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain
that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get
over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of
belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed,
and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not,
are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's
bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for
those to whom products are specifically designed and
marketed towards us.
- Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is
a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use,
that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible,
it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the
other.
- That is why I say you should expend that energy you put
in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in
to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and
actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative
and disruptive.
- We've heard every single complaint you've raised before,
and reitterating them here, is not going to change what
currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact
the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with
your arguments.
- *SMH*
- On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
- 
- "Octavien, if you put as much energy in
to learning the new skype as you do complaining
about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
- Â
- I already told you that
this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning
to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last
years, but I still consider it worse and less
accessible than Windows XP.
- After I will learn to
use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but
that "very well" would still be worse than using
Skype 7 for me.
- Â
- Don't think that all the
people use the applications the same way you use
them.
- Â
- --Octavian
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: Shaun Oliver
- To: skypeenglish@groups.io
- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
- Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
- so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and
android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but,
it's certainly better than it ever was.
- Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning
the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd
have nothing to complain about.
- On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
- I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find
myself navigating a lot faster in the web
interface than the older interface but thats just
me.
- On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
- Any improvement is
good, but these are small improvements while
bigger issues will never be solved.
- Â
- The biggest issue:
Skype 8 uses a web interface.
- This issue might be
worked around if the scripts will turn the
virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way
Skype will be fully accessible this way.
- Â
- The best news is
that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad
that it will probably stop working soon.
- Â
- --Octavian
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: John Holcomb II
- To: skypeenglish@groups.io
- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
- Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype
Blogs
- https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
|
|
|
Dear Serah,
Thanks so much for speaking up!
the lack of development of tech for the blind isn't that the blind are a
minority, there are millions of us around the world and we could be a
very powerful economic demographic accept for one little fact.
What's the real minority is the number of blind people who are willing to
use their own money to pay for their unique tech needs.
Skype is free!
Doug Lee's work creating, updating, and maintaining cutting edge Skype
scripts is all free also.
heck, even membership in this community is free!
Maybe if we had to pay for Skype and the scripts to access it there would
be fewer complaints
You and Doug and the other mods here also have personal lives and bills
to pay outside of this forum.
Those who constantly complain contribute what? to this group?
There is a lot of tech not accessible by the blind, like your radio
digital dials. an and radio has been around for over 100
years! LOL
Lets start an on-line group to complain about radio, and then TV, and
then all the cars that the blind can't drive or planes we can't fly
yet! LOL
Thanks giving is a few days away, maybe it's time to be a little more
thankful for what we have been blessed with rather than focused on what
we feel entitled to have that we haven't received.
Mike in SC
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
At 12:09 PM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
minority
Then sit down, write your feedback
to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you
don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound
like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case
and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is
hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or
leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a minority and
we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am
saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we
can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend
that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
Â
--Octavian
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: Shaun Oliver
- To: skypeenglish@groups.io
- Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
- Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
- that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
- I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.
- Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.
- That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.
- We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.
- *SMH*
- On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
- 
- "Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
- Â
- I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
- After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
- Â
- Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
- Â
- --Octavian
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: Shaun Oliver
- To: skypeenglish@groups.io
- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
- Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
- so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.
- Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
- On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
- I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
- On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
- Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
- Â
- The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
- This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
- Â
- The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
- Â
- --Octavian
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: John Holcomb II
- To: skypeenglish@groups.io
- Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
- Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
- https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
|
|
|
Sarah k Alawami
Agreed. So sit down, compose your rants to the skype team as I have stated before and see where it gets you. If it gets you nowhere then there is always the door as my professors have said.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20 Nov 2018, at 0:07, Shaun Oliver wrote:
100% more effort and time? Really?
How much effort and time do you put in to composing the emails
you do finding every negative thing you can? that's wasted energy
and effort that would have been better spent on learning
something, or better yet, composing missives to the developers and
entering in to civil discourse with them so you can see the
improvements you'd like taking place.
On 20/11/2018 16:57, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

I'm also tired to explain you
that not all the people have the same needs from the same
applications, because it seems that it is hard for you to
understand.
Â
Pressing 2 keys instead of one
takes 100% more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for
everybody.
If something is not perfect, we
should accept it as is, but we should also agree that is not
perfect and don't pretend that it is perfect and we should
tell only good things about it.
Â
If you say that you are so tired,
then I'd have a recommendation for you... instead of telling
me to shut up, just because I don't have the same preferences
as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if it is so hard for
you to understand?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20,
2018 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction
come in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit
field, and you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to
forms or brows mode, depending on your screenreader, then you
can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired
of you knit picking every single thing you can and finding
every single reason you can to decry not only skype, but the
tireless work both developers and end-users have done to get
it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut
up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:

Yes, that's true. In some
cases it might be faster to navigate in the web interface,
but the problem I see is that the web interface is not
standard, and anytime can appear something new in that
interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere,
so we can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and
then enter and then do this fast without waiting for
screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never
change depending on context. For sighted it is not a
problem because they can see the entire window, they can
see the context very fast.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November
19, 2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself
navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the
older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is
good, but these are small improvements while
bigger issues will never be solved.
Â
The biggest issue:
Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be
worked around if the scripts will turn the
virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way
Skype will be fully accessible this way.
Â
The best news is
that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad
that it will probably stop working soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Monday,
November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Sarah k Alawami
Who said anyting about pressing two keys. I just use one and it is awesome. You again are the minority here.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I'm also tired to explain you that not all the
people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that it
is hard for you to understand.
Â
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more
effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should accept it as
is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend that it is
perfect and we should tell only good things about it.
Â
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have a
recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I don't
have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if it is so
hard for you to understand?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:55
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to
play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're there.
then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending on your
screenreader, then you can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you knit
picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason you can to
decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and end-users have
done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut
up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be
faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the
web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that
interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't
memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this
fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces
that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem
because they can see the entire window, they can see the context very
fast.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just
me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the moment Skype
7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Sarah k Alawami
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will
always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all
would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all
of us.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot
and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you
still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over
it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part
nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put
it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a
minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as
we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending
litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had,
it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the
other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up
and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients
thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and
disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating
them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly
about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with
your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much
energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd
have nothing to complain about.".
Â
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot
of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last
years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows
XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to
use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype
7 for me.
Â
Don't think that all the people use the applications
the same way you use them.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever
was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you
do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a
lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just
me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|

English is not my native language, so probably I
wasn't clear enough so you didn't understand too much, but I never said that I
know something or that I am the voice of who knows who.
I just presented my
opinions, and I don't care if I am the single person in the whole world that has
these opinions that Skype 8 is worse than Skype 7.
Because there are more
people that have an opinion it doesn't mean that the fewer people that have a
totally different one are not important at all.
And yes, I already said it
for a few times, the developers won't care too much about the blind because we
are too few, and yes, we should follow the masses and use what we can, but this
doesn't mean that we should also pretend that this is what we prefer, because
this would mean hypocrisy just for appearing good and nice to others,
falsely.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:06
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
and going through the proper channels and entering in to civil discourse
has worked so badly for the rest of us. I'm sorry, but this attitude that you
know everything and how you say it is is the right of it, bothers me
greatly.
you are only one voice of many, or to be a little more fair to you, I
suppose a few of many that are discontent with the changes. Granted, not
everyone is going to like them, but, a developer cannot keep a thing because a
hand full of end-users want it so.
This is the last I'm going to say on this, because I am just to the point
where typing responses and attempting to get you to see that it isn't all doom
and gloom is costing me time and energy I could better spend elsewhere.
On 20/11/2018 18:49, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

I don't put too much effort, and I don't
consider them negative. I just compared 2 products, one that I like and
another one that I don't like. That's all.
It wouldn't be helpful at all to contact the
developers, because they care about productivity and profit, and developing
a web interface is much more productive than developing a native GUI, plus
that the main target is the sighted users.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018
10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
100% more effort and time? Really?
How much effort and time do you put in to composing the emails you do
finding every negative thing you can? that's wasted energy and effort that
would have been better spent on learning something, or better yet,
composing missives to the developers and entering in to civil discourse
with them so you can see the improvements you'd like taking place.
On 20/11/2018 16:57, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

I'm also tired to explain you that not all
the people have the same needs from the same applications, because it
seems that it is hard for you to understand.
Â
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100%
more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should
accept it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't
pretend that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about
it.
Â
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd
have a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just
because I don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut
up instead if it is so hard for you to understand?
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018
12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come
in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and
you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode,
depending on your screenreader, then you can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of
you knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single
reason you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both
developers and end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm
sorry, but either put up, or shut up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:

Yes, that's true. In some cases it
might be faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I
see is that the web interface is not standard, and anytime can
appear something new in that interface, advertising, a link there, a
button elsewhere, so we can't memorize that we need to press tab
twice and then enter and then do this fast without waiting for
screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change
depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they
can see the entire window, they can see the context very
fast.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself
navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older
interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these
are small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
Â
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a
web interface.
This issue might be worked around
if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and
it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype
will be fully accessible this way.
Â
The best news is that for the
moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop
working soon.
Â
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November
19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype
Blogs
|
|
|
