Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

----- Original Message -----

From: John Holcomb II

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 11:51 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Sarah k Alawami

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2018 2:23 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care
On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care
On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

and that, is what I'm talking about. instead of talking to them, you're
moaning here on a forum that has little to do with that which you are
complaining about accept for the aspects relating to Skype.


Instead of complaining about it, Reach out and discuss with the
developers themselves. they really aren't big scary ogres



On 6/10/2018 06:18, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future
iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be
considerably better for it".
Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than
Windows XP was for me.
It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.
I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works
bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the
command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use
has some limitations, the other email client have some missing
features etc.
And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs
that could work a little better, but none of them have all the
features I need.
If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these
things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be
accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Shaun Oliver <mailto:blindman75@...>
*To:* skypeenglish@groups.io <mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io>
*Sent:* Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM
*Subject:* Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below
has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.


Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons
for the questions in the first place.


What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as
opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at
the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like
to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product
remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to
overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least
try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said
conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said
end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure
implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring
back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache,
even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little
need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm
seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own
community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to
be.


Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done
away with, because they have security holes and are based on now
defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance,
hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet,
there are still people out there using it on the internet, even
knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate
networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is
similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even
though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it,
knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact
with at risk.


I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.


Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because
what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and
calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those
in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are
there in future iterations of said software and your lives and
mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the
myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in
insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an
experience as they enjoy currently.




On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare
and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every
year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first
words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind
kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you
can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we
just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non
judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a
few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to
just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC

At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has
been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the
world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping
each other to access, understand and use the new program to our
fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our
use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the
improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess
what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility
and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have
so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are
developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition
.
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just
think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of
these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers
for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!

**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

 

and that's the beauty of current versions of windows, that ability is there. some are using older versions of windows that are reaching their end of life cycle, but, that doesn't preclude them from submitting that feedback, they just have to take a few extra steps to get there. so really all this complaining about this being worse, that not being accessible and how the organization can go to places even I wouldn't want to visit for a holiday, is unnecessary, because said organization has decided, and rightfully so, in my opinion, to stop playing the part of an ostrich and not only take on board, but act on the feedback given. we won't necessarily get everything we want, but that is true of life in general. as the song says, you can't always get what you want, but you find sometimes, you get what you need.

 

 

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care
On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

 

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care
On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

 

 

 

I forget the name of the page, but there is the something having to do voices or some such URL that MS does monitor and does answer feedback. If I could only remember that URL.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

Octavian, there's this saying (at least here) about "beating a dead horse." You have expressed your opinions, but the same opinions many times. I respectfully request, in order to prevent this discussion from going on forever,
that we refrain from saying things we've said before.

On Sat, Oct 06, 2018 at 11:51:33AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Yes Sarah, you are right. But I wonder why do you tell this only to the
people that have a different opinion than you.

Why don't you tell that the praises to Skype 8 are also useless and
don't make Skype 8 beeing better?



I am a reactive person. I usually don't start discussions and flame
wars, but I just send my opinions *after* other people send their
opinions.



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2018 2:23 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of
hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does
in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of
their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on
skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of
just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's
the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find
somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but
put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care
On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?



From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy


"insure that the things you want and need are there in future
iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be
considerably better for it".


Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than
Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works
bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the
command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use
has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features
etc.


And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs
that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features
I need.


If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these
things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be
accessible, I can choose to use something else and that's all.


--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Shaun Oliver

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy


to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below
has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.


Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for
the questions in the first place.


What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as
opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the
grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to
see happen in order that their experience with the end-product
remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to
overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least
try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said
conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said
end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure
implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back
a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for
the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point
fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and
while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is
something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.


Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done
away with, because they have security holes and are based on now
defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance,
hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there
are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing
that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's
only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no
longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are
better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're
placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.


I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.


Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because
what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and
calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in
the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in
future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be
considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that
would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as
smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy
currently.




On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare
and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year
for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.
Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid
who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't
do, but rather by the many things you can do!"
We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just
asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental
answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few,
and wait for someone to share some solutions.
Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to
just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL
Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC

At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been
argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the
world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each
other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest
abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the
program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements
regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven't
been left behind yet.
That's because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and
the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we
are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are
developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just
think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of
these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for
using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!

**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!
Virus-free. [5]www.avg.com




References

Visible links
1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
6. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3332
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20such%20a%20waste%20of%20intelligent%20energy
8. mailto:orasnita@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20such%20a%20waste%20of%20intelligent%20energy
9. https://groups.io/mt/26799643/409874
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
11. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
12. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
13. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

Hidden links:
16. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
17. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
18. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2

Octavian, there's this saying (at least here) about "beating a dead horse." You have expressed your opinions, but the same opinions many times. I respectfully request, in order to prevent this discussion from going on forever,
that we refrain from saying things we've said before.

On Sat, Oct 06, 2018 at 11:51:33AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Yes Sarah, you are right. But I wonder why do you tell this only to the
people that have a different opinion than you.

Why don't you tell that the praises to Skype 8 are also useless and
don't make Skype 8 beeing better?



I am a reactive person. I usually don't start discussions and flame
wars, but I just send my opinions *after* other people send their
opinions.



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2018 2:23 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of
hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does
in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of
their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on
skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of
just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's
the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find
somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but
put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care
On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?



From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy


"insure that the things you want and need are there in future
iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be
considerably better for it".


Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than
Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works
bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the
command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use
has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features
etc.


And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs
that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features
I need.


If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these
things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be
accessible, I can choose to use something else and that's all.


--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Shaun Oliver

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy


to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below
has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.


Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for
the questions in the first place.


What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as
opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the
grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to
see happen in order that their experience with the end-product
remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to
overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least
try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said
conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said
end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure
implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back
a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for
the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point
fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and
while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is
something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.


Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done
away with, because they have security holes and are based on now
defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance,
hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there
are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing
that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's
only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no
longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are
better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're
placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.


I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.


Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because
what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and
calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in
the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in
future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be
considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that
would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as
smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy
currently.




On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare
and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year
for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.
Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid
who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't
do, but rather by the many things you can do!"
We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just
asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental
answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few,
and wait for someone to share some solutions.
Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to
just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL
Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC

At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been
argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the
world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each
other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest
abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the
program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements
regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven't
been left behind yet.
That's because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and
the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we
are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are
developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just
think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of
these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for
using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!

**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!
Virus-free. [5]www.avg.com




References

Visible links
1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
6. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3332
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20such%20a%20waste%20of%20intelligent%20energy
8. mailto:orasnita@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20such%20a%20waste%20of%20intelligent%20energy
9. https://groups.io/mt/26799643/409874
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
11. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
12. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
13. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

Hidden links:
16. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
17. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
18. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2

With Skype 8.3, no one can hear me whenever I make a phone call.


On 10/6/2018 12:24 PM, Doug Lee wrote:

Octavian, there's this saying (at least here) about "beating a dead horse." You have expressed your opinions, but the same opinions many times. I respectfully request, in order to prevent this discussion from going on forever,
that we refrain from saying things we've said before.

On Sat, Oct 06, 2018 at 11:51:33AM +0300, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Yes Sarah, you are right. But I wonder why do you tell this only to the
people that have a different opinion than you.

Why don't you tell that the praises to Skype 8 are also useless and
don't make Skype 8 beeing better?



I am a reactive person. I usually don't start discussions and flame
wars, but I just send my opinions *after* other people send their
opinions.



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2018 2:23 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of
hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does
in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of
their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on
skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of
just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's
the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find
somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but
put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care
On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?



From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy


"insure that the things you want and need are there in future
iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be
considerably better for it".


Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than
Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works
bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the
command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use
has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features
etc.


And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs
that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features
I need.


If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these
things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be
accessible, I can choose to use something else and that's all.


--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Shaun Oliver

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy


to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below
has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.


Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for
the questions in the first place.


What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as
opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the
grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to
see happen in order that their experience with the end-product
remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to
overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least
try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said
conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said
end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure
implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back
a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for
the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point
fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and
while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is
something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.


Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done
away with, because they have security holes and are based on now
defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance,
hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there
are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing
that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's
only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no
longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are
better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're
placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.


I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.


Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because
what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and
calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in
the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in
future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be
considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that
would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as
smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy
currently.




On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare
and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year
for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.
Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid
who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't
do, but rather by the many things you can do!"
We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just
asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental
answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few,
and wait for someone to share some solutions.
Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to
just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL
Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC

At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been
argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the
world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each
other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest
abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the
program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements
regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven't
been left behind yet.
That's because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and
the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we
are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are
developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just
think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of
these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for
using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!

**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!
Virus-free. [5]www.avg.com




References

Visible links
1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
6. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3332
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20such%20a%20waste%20of%20intelligent%20energy
8. mailto:orasnita@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20such%20a%20waste%20of%20intelligent%20energy
9. https://groups.io/mt/26799643/409874
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
11. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
12. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
13. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

Hidden links:
16. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
17. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
18. file://localhost/Users/dlee/tmp/neomutt-mini-501-708-17632521860734166761#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2