Date   
Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Brian Hartgen <brianhartgen@...>
 

Hi Shaun

Absolutely right, and I have done that. I've reached out to the Disability answer desk both by phone and in writing, and also to the Skype team directly.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: 05 October 2018 09:38
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Might it not also be prudent to reach out to Microsoft and address those self same concerns with them? otherwise, they aren't likely to be aware that that functionality has a need, because as helpful as they are, they are still a conglomerate that needs to pay attention to their profit margin. That being said, the fact that they are prepared to listen and hopefully give reasons as to why or why not, is surely no bad thing?



On 5/10/2018 17:41, Brian Hartgen wrote:
Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that the person originally posting to this list about the need for implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA developers, build such functionality into their respective products by default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them, with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
mentioned itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to
accomodate what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to
receive total accessibility, as there is always going to be
developers that will simply throw the concept in to the too hard
basket, simply because it neither affects their bottom line, nor fits
in with their vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even there
at the click of a button. although, due to various bits of
legislature and programming standards set by what I will for the sake
of the argument call The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get
anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and
demands to customise the software just so one person is happier and
able to utilise the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the
ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might
be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice and
constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public,
not for those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because
if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows
7 when compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
under Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff
a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go
skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a
fun and joyful experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility
with Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now,
I could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow
as I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all
about making first party software work well, and third party stuff too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond
the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I
can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the
vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very real
problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet polite
when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to say,
and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by initial
only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's
too hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
want to make the list constructive and these archives by my
choice are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't
like it, as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not
want to moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will
either be moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as
it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite the
bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly
within the control of the blindness community. and really people
as a whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone.
we do not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility
needs, so I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing,
disparraging remarks, the complaining that this isn’t
predictable or how unfair it is that we’re losing hotkeys that
quite frankly nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about, and just learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
from Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page
up should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that
won't help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that
such a keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit
easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from
people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I am
going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's
a Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button
while tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to
take the incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do,
you can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older
versions of Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on
your desktop will open the Skype window again. Since I rarely
minimize the Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I
don't know if an incoming call will make that window appear,
that's why I mentioned how to open it while Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
widget, because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
Skype 8 window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get,
because of spam calls that are made to my phone number,
which I route through Skype specifically so I can handle
such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering
a call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the same
contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype
tried to initiate a call to that person and simply
connected to the incoming call as a result. This could
easily give the illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if
you are testing the feature and thus are likely to be
showing that exact contact when a call arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and
a call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway
I can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it
sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami




--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln















Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Shaun Oliver
 

excellent stuff. I also reitterate, that the attitudes we choose to arm ourselves with when we reach out also determines just how much joy we're likely to receive, and I know you to be a professional in all such matters.


Sadly, the same is unable to be said for some elements of our community, and they tend to bleet the loudest and cause the good work people like yourself and others have and are continuing to do to be undermined. Granted, none of them are on this list, and that is certainly to the good as well.

On 5/10/2018 18:10, Brian Hartgen wrote:
Hi Shaun

Absolutely right, and I have done that. I've reached out to the Disability answer desk both by phone and in writing, and also to the Skype team directly.


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: 05 October 2018 09:38
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Might it not also be prudent to reach out to Microsoft and address those self same concerns with them? otherwise, they aren't likely to be aware that that functionality has a need, because as helpful as they are, they are still a conglomerate that needs to pay attention to their profit margin. That being said, the fact that they are prepared to listen and hopefully give reasons as to why or why not, is surely no bad thing?



On 5/10/2018 17:41, Brian Hartgen wrote:
Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that the person originally posting to this list about the need for implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA developers, build such functionality into their respective products by default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them, with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
mentioned itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to
accomodate what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to
receive total accessibility, as there is always going to be
developers that will simply throw the concept in to the too hard
basket, simply because it neither affects their bottom line, nor fits
in with their vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even there
at the click of a button. although, due to various bits of
legislature and programming standards set by what I will for the sake
of the argument call The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get
anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and
demands to customise the software just so one person is happier and
able to utilise the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the
ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might
be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice and
constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public,
not for those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because
if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows
7 when compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
under Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff
a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go
skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a
fun and joyful experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility
with Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now,
I could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow
as I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all
about making first party software work well, and third party stuff too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond
the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I
can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the
vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very real
problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet polite
when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to say,
and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by initial
only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's
too hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
want to make the list constructive and these archives by my
choice are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't
like it, as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not
want to moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will
either be moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as
it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite the
bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly
within the control of the blindness community. and really people
as a whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone.
we do not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility
needs, so I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing,
disparraging remarks, the complaining that this isn’t
predictable or how unfair it is that we’re losing hotkeys that
quite frankly nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about, and just learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
from Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page
up should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that
won't help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that
such a keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit
easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from
people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I am
going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's
a Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button
while tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to
take the incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do,
you can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older
versions of Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on
your desktop will open the Skype window again. Since I rarely
minimize the Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I
don't know if an incoming call will make that window appear,
that's why I mentioned how to open it while Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
widget, because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
Skype 8 window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get,
because of spam calls that are made to my phone number,
which I route through Skype specifically so I can handle
such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering
a call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the same
contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype
tried to initiate a call to that person and simply
connected to the incoming call as a result. This could
easily give the illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if
you are testing the feature and thus are likely to be
showing that exact contact when a call arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and
a call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway
I can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it
sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln














Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Brian Hartgen <brianhartgen@...>
 

Well quite, and thank you. I would encourage anyone to contact the D A D if they have such concerns, in a positive manner. As I say, I did do so prior to 8.30 being released, and they got back to me saying the problem could be duplicated, and it was fixed in 8.30. So they do listen.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: 05 October 2018 09:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

excellent stuff. I also reitterate, that the attitudes we choose to arm ourselves with when we reach out also determines just how much joy we're likely to receive, and I know you to be a professional in all such matters.


Sadly, the same is unable to be said for some elements of our community, and they tend to bleet the loudest and cause the good work people like yourself and others have and are continuing to do to be undermined.
Granted, none of them are on this list, and that is certainly to the good as well.



On 5/10/2018 18:10, Brian Hartgen wrote:
Hi Shaun

Absolutely right, and I have done that. I've reached out to the Disability answer desk both by phone and in writing, and also to the Skype team directly.


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: 05 October 2018 09:38
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Might it not also be prudent to reach out to Microsoft and address those self same concerns with them? otherwise, they aren't likely to be aware that that functionality has a need, because as helpful as they are, they are still a conglomerate that needs to pay attention to their profit margin. That being said, the fact that they are prepared to listen and hopefully give reasons as to why or why not, is surely no bad thing?



On 5/10/2018 17:41, Brian Hartgen wrote:
Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that the person originally posting to this list about the need for implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA developers, build such functionality into their respective products by default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them, with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
mentioned itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to
accomodate what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to
receive total accessibility, as there is always going to be
developers that will simply throw the concept in to the too hard
basket, simply because it neither affects their bottom line, nor
fits in with their vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even
there at the click of a button. although, due to various bits of
legislature and programming standards set by what I will for the
sake of the argument call The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has
something taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd
never get anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with
requests and demands to customise the software just so one person is
happier and able to utilise the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn
the ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that
might be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice
and constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public,
not for those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows,
because if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under
Windows
7 when compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
under Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean
that those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some
stuff a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft
and go skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use
and a fun and joyful experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility
with Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now,
I could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow
as I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all
about making first party software work well, and third party stuff too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf
Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not
beyond the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks
would, I can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back
to the vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very
real problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet
polite when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to
say, and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by
initial only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it
because it's too hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
want to make the list constructive and these archives by my
choice are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't
like it, as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not
want to moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will
either be moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it.
as it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite
the bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly
within the control of the blindness community. and really
people as a whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone.
we do not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility
needs, so I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing,
disparraging remarks, the complaining that this isn’t
predictable or how unfair it is that we’re losing hotkeys that
quite frankly nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about, and just learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
from Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page
up should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that
won't help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that
such a keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a
bit easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are
from people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I
am going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's
a Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button
while tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to
take the incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do,
you can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older
versions of Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on
your desktop will open the Skype window again. Since I
rarely minimize the Skype window while my Skype 8 is
running, I don't know if an incoming call will make that
window appear, that's why I mentioned how to open it while Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it,
say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
widget, because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
Skype 8 window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get,
because of spam calls that are made to my phone number,
which I route through Skype specifically so I can handle
such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering
a call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee"
<dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version
of skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the
same contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P,
Skype tried to initiate a call to that person and simply
connected to the incoming call as a result. This could
easily give the illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls
if you are testing the feature and thus are likely to be
showing that exact contact when a call arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and
a call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway
I can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it
sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't
remember forgetting." --Sarah Alawami



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a
man's character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln















such a waste of intelligent energy

SUNRISE DREAMER
 

Hello friends,

I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.

The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.

All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.

As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.

That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,

which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .

We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?

Catcha later from Lewis!

 

**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!


Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

James Malone
 

Hi Brian, can we get the scripts, and how much?

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Hartgen
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 1:11 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that the person originally posting to this list about the need for implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA developers, build such functionality into their respective products by default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them, with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
mentioned itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to accomodate
what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to receive
total accessibility, as there is always going to be developers that
will simply throw the concept in to the too hard basket, simply
because it neither affects their bottom line, nor fits in with their
vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even there at the click of
a button. although, due to various bits of legislature and programming
standards set by what I will for the sake of the argument call
The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get
anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and
demands to customise the software just so one person is happier and
able to utilise the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the
ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might
be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice and
constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public, not
for those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because
if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows 7
when compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
under Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff
a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go
skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a
fun and joyful experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility with
Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now, I
could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow as
I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all about
making first party software work well, and third party stuff too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond
the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I
can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the
vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very real
problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet polite
when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to say,
and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by initial
only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's too
hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
want to make the list constructive and these archives by my choice
are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't like it,
as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not want to
moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will either be
moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as
it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite the
bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly within
the control of the blindness community. and really people as a
whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone. we do
not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility needs, so
I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing, disparraging remarks,
the complaining that this isn’t predictable or how unfair it is
that we’re losing hotkeys that quite frankly nobody gives a
rodent’s rectum about, and just learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
from Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page up
should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that won't
help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that such a
keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit
easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from
people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I am
going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's a
Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button while
tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to take the
incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do, you
can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older versions of
Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on your desktop
will open the Skype window again. Since I rarely minimize the
Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I don't know if an
incoming call will make that window appear, that's why I
mentioned how to open it while Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
widget, because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
Skype 8 window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get,
because of spam calls that are made to my phone number, which
I route through Skype specifically so I
can handle such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering a
call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the same
contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype
tried to initiate a call to that person and simply connected
to the incoming call as a result. This could easily give the
illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if you are testing
the feature and thus are likely to be showing that exact
contact when a call arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and a
call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway I
can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami





--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln


















Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Brian Hartgen <brianhartgen@...>
 

Hello James
I would have preferred writing to you privately on this matter because we are a commercial company, and this list is probably not the place to discuss such matters, but I was unable to obtain your email address from the message here. Our scripts are available as part of our product Leasey, or if you purchase our Skype8 training course.
Please write to me at brian@... if you cannot find the information on our website and you wish to know more.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: 05 October 2018 15:35
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi Brian, can we get the scripts, and how much?

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Hartgen
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 1:11 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that the person originally posting to this list about the need for implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA developers, build such functionality into their respective products by default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them, with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
mentioned itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to accomodate
what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to receive
total accessibility, as there is always going to be developers that
will simply throw the concept in to the too hard basket, simply
because it neither affects their bottom line, nor fits in with their
vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even there at the click of
a button. although, due to various bits of legislature and programming
standards set by what I will for the sake of the argument call
The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get
anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and
demands to customise the software just so one person is happier and
able to utilise the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the
ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might
be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice and
constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public, not
for those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because
if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows 7
when compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
under Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff
a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go
skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a
fun and joyful experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility with
Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now, I
could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow as
I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all about
making first party software work well, and third party stuff too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond
the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I
can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the
vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very real
problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet polite
when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to say,
and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by initial
only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's too
hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
want to make the list constructive and these archives by my choice
are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't like it,
as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not want to
moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will either be
moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as
it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite the
bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly within
the control of the blindness community. and really people as a
whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone. we do
not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility needs, so
I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing, disparraging remarks,
the complaining that this isn’t predictable or how unfair it is
that we’re losing hotkeys that quite frankly nobody gives a
rodent’s rectum about, and just learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
from Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page up
should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that won't
help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that such a
keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit
easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from
people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I am
going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's a
Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button while
tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to take the
incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do, you
can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older versions of
Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on your desktop
will open the Skype window again. Since I rarely minimize the
Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I don't know if an
incoming call will make that window appear, that's why I
mentioned how to open it while Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
widget, because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
Skype 8 window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get,
because of spam calls that are made to my phone number, which
I route through Skype specifically so I
can handle such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering a
call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the same
contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype
tried to initiate a call to that person and simply connected
to the incoming call as a result. This could easily give the
illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if you are testing
the feature and thus are likely to be showing that exact
contact when a call arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and a
call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway I
can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami





--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln


















Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually your statement is not true. I block the potential flames that might or might not start up. This list is for skpe and skype only, no flames aloud if you read the welcome message. So yeah I'm heavy handed, but I'm fair. I do let the topics drift but this one is starting to go way off topic. And yeah I do close with out warning sometimes if the flames get too, um, fiery


Those that have ben with me since 2005 will know thi.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 23:05, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Sarah, in my opinion, as an admin you should be a mediator, but you are not.

If you agree with somebody, you seem to not care that that person says
something like "nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about...", as that person
would know what all the people care about, but if you don't agree, you block
the messages.

The result is that the discussions on the list should first please you, not
be informative.

Please tell me if I am wrong. If I don't like something and I tell why, then
is not OK, but it is OK if somebody else like that thing and says that he
doesn't care about the things I care.

I am curious how you would consider my message if I'd tell you that "nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about you say", or something like that. I guess that you probably wouldn't like such a message, but you agree with somebody that says that thing about other people.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also working on
my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and they will
with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We want to make the
list constructive and these archives by my choice are public, so let's
try and be civil here. If you don't like it, as my teacher used to say,
there's the door. I do not want to moderate the topic but one more bad
apple and it will either be moderated or locked. You all have ben
forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as it was,
I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the deprecated API and
unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are the kinds
of comments we could all quite frankly do without, simply because MS, in
recent times, has actually begun to carefully consider accessibility and
implement same, despite the bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep
accessibility firmly within the control of the blindness community. and
really people as a whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people
alone. we do not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility
needs, so I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing, disparraging
remarks, the complaining that this isn’t predictable or how unfair it is
that we’re losing hotkeys that quite frankly nobody gives a rodent’s
rectum about, and just learn the new interface, build a bridge and get
over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and learn the
key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't like it not much you
can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all. Harsh, but
true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name from
Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page" <clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page up should
be
added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that won't help users of
other
screen-readers. I'm not sure that such a keystroke is necessary
anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated to me ,
although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit easier. I am
lucky
that the Skype calls I receive are from people I know, and in most
cases I
have warning that I am going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype
window in Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway,
and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's a Decline button
too,
which comes before the Answer button while tabbing through the window,
so if
you don't want to take the incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do, you can
minimise
it with alt+f4 like you did in older versions of Skype, and pressing
Enter
on the Skype icon on your desktop will open the Skype window again.
Since I
rarely minimize the Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I don't
know
if an incoming call will make that window appear, that's why I
mentioned how
to open it while Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf
Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script stored in
default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web widget,
because
that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the Skype 8
window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the
Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller ID, then
tab
to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also less prone
to
the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!" situation.
This
situation would be my description of most calls I get, because of
spam
calls that
are made to my phone number, which I route through Skype specifically
so I
can handle such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say the hell
with
Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering a call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in Skype 8,
but
that
if you happened to be displaying the same contact that called you
and you
typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype tried to initiate a call to that person
and
simply
connected to the incoming call as a result. This could easily give
the
illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if you are testing the
feature
and thus are likely to be showing that exact contact when a call
arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and a call
arrives,
I
only used it for starting a call. Anyway I can confirm ctrl+e for
ending
a
call, I tested it sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@...
http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"I forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami





--
Doug Lee dgl@...
http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln










Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Sarah k Alawami
 

Hey don't worry about it brian, I'll let this one slide, but for sure next time if yu can please take that particular discussion off list.

Happy skyping and again don't worry about it.

On 5 Oct 2018, at 8:06, Brian Hartgen wrote:

Hello James
I would have preferred writing to you privately on this matter because we are a commercial company, and this list is probably not the place to discuss such matters, but I was unable to obtain your email address from the message here. Our scripts are available as part of our product Leasey, or if you purchase our Skype8 training course.
Please write to me at brian@... if you cannot find the information on our website and you wish to know more.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of James Malone
Sent: 05 October 2018 15:35
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi Brian, can we get the scripts, and how much?

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Hartgen
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 1:11 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that the person originally posting to this list about the need for implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA developers, build such functionality into their respective products by default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them, with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
mentioned itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to accomodate
what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to receive
total accessibility, as there is always going to be developers that
will simply throw the concept in to the too hard basket, simply
because it neither affects their bottom line, nor fits in with their
vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even there at the click of
a button. although, due to various bits of legislature and programming
standards set by what I will for the sake of the argument call
The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get
anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and
demands to customise the software just so one person is happier and
able to utilise the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the
ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might
be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice and
constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public, not
for those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because
if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows 7
when compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
under Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff
a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go
skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a
fun and joyful experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility with
Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now, I
could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow as
I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all about
making first party software work well, and third party stuff too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond
the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I
can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the
vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very real
problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet polite
when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to say,
and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by initial
only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's too
hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
want to make the list constructive and these archives by my choice
are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't like it,
as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not want to
moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will either be
moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as
it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite the
bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly within
the control of the blindness community. and really people as a
whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone. we do
not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility needs, so
I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing, disparraging remarks,
the complaining that this isn’t predictable or how unfair it is
that we’re losing hotkeys that quite frankly nobody gives a
rodent’s rectum about, and just learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
from Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page up
should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that won't
help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that such a
keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit
easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from
people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I am
going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's a
Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button while
tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to take the
incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do, you
can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older versions of
Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on your desktop
will open the Skype window again. Since I rarely minimize the
Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I don't know if an
incoming call will make that window appear, that's why I
mentioned how to open it while Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
widget, because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
Skype 8 window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get,
because of spam calls that are made to my phone number, which
I route through Skype specifically so I
can handle such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering a
call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the same
contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype
tried to initiate a call to that person and simply connected
to the incoming call as a result. This could easily give the
illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if you are testing
the feature and thus are likely to be showing that exact
contact when a call arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and a
call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway I
can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami





--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln





























Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

John Holcomb II
 

Here's what I'm seeing.
There are maybe what. 3 people that don't agree with Skype being accessible now.
I haven't tried the 8 version yet.
But I think enough people use it that even having not tried it yet, that I'm sure it'll work just fine.
I'm not all that worried about it to be honest.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 2:11 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Wasn't Skype better accessible until now? For many years?
What Microsoft done was to limit the size of the file that can be transferred to 300 mb, to transfer the file to its server first, so decrease the privacy, and now eliminated some of the feature of the program.
Isn't this true?

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Holcomb II" <@JHRadio>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility with Skype
and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now, I could
walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and probably get Skype
to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow as I have not used narrator
and Skype together, but they're all about making first party software work
well, and third party stuff too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun
Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and searchable by the
internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond the realm of possibility
that the afforementioned remarks would, I can say with almost 100%
certainty, find their way back to the vendor that is being railed against,
thus causing very real problems in the long run for those of us that are
stern yet polite when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use of in the
future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and complaints about how
not enough is being done and what is already there is nowhere near enough
that causes devs on the whole to say, and please excuse my use of the more
colorful, even if by initial only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with
it because it's too hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much
about attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also working
on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and they
will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We want to
make the list constructive and these archives by my choice are
public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't like it, as my
teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not want to moderate the
topic but one more bad apple and it will either be moderated or
locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as it
was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the deprecated
API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are the
kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without, simply
because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to carefully consider
accessibility and implement same, despite the bleeting from the NFB
wanting to keep accessibility firmly within the control of the
blindness community. and really people as a whole, accessibility is
not limited to blind people alone. we do not, nor wil we ever hold
the monopoly on accessibility needs, so I suggest we dispense with
the badmouthing, disparraging remarks, the complaining that this
isn’t predictable or how unfair it is that we’re losing hotkeys that
quite frankly nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about, and just learn
the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and learn
the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't like it not
much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name from
Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page up
should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that won't
help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that such a
keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated to me
, although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit easier. I
am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from people I know,
and in most cases I have warning that I am going to receive a
call, so I go into the Skype window in Skype 8, which I tend to
leave open while Skype is running anyway, and press Tab till I
find the Answer button. There's a Decline button too, which comes
before the Answer button while tabbing through the window, so if
you don't want to take the incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do, you can
minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older versions of Skype,
and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on your desktop will open the
Skype window again. Since I rarely minimize the Skype window while
my Skype 8 is running, I don't know if an incoming call will make
that window appear, that's why I mentioned how to open it while
Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web widget,
because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the Skype 8
window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to
the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller ID,
then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also less
prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get, because of
spam calls that are made to my phone number, which I route
through Skype specifically so I
can handle such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say the
hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering a call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in Skype
8, but
that
if you happened to be displaying the same contact that called
you and you
typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype tried to initiate a call to that
person and
simply
connected to the incoming call as a result. This could easily
give the
illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if you are testing the
feature
and thus are likely to be showing that exact contact when a call
arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and a call
arrives,
I
only used it for starting a call. Anyway I can confirm ctrl+e
for ending
a
call, I tested it sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"I forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami





--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln









Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

John Holcomb II
 

I think he didn't contact the dude off list because he doesn't know how to get the email address of the person who wrote.
I certainly don’t see how to do this.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 12:19 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hey don't worry about it brian, I'll let this one slide, but for sure next time if yu can please take that particular discussion off list.

Happy skyping and again don't worry about it.

On 5 Oct 2018, at 8:06, Brian Hartgen wrote:

Hello James
I would have preferred writing to you privately on this matter because
we are a commercial company, and this list is probably not the place
to discuss such matters, but I was unable to obtain your email address
from the message here. Our scripts are available as part of our
product Leasey, or if you purchase our Skype8 training course.
Please write to me at brian@... if you cannot find
the information on our website and you wish to know more.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
James Malone
Sent: 05 October 2018 15:35
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi Brian, can we get the scripts, and how much?

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf
Of Brian Hartgen
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 1:11 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a
thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in
terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms
of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree
that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should
get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there
is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware
that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that
not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does
not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual
impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting
in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who
have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a
challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it
is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar
organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they
want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to
devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts
for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition
from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global
hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has
previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a
training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what
we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition
successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that
the person originally posting to this list about the need for
implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a
very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the
new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA
developers, build such functionality into their respective products by
default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if
they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my
support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the
features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if
the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the
final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear
as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible
under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when
Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them,
with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more
secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for
some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but
also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad
it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what
are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do
what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful
thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean
that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it
useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
mentioned itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made
inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to
accomodate what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to
receive total accessibility, as there is always going to be
developers that will simply throw the concept in to the too hard
basket, simply because it neither affects their bottom line, nor fits
in with their vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even there
at the click of a button. although, due to various bits of
legislature and programming standards set by what I will for the sake
of the argument call The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This
is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience
as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get
anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and
demands to customise the software just so one person is happier and
able to utilise the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the
ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might
be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice and
constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our
level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public,
not for those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because
if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows
7
when compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
under Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for
doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff
a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go
skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a
fun and joyful experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility
with Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now,
I could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow
as I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all
about making first party software work well, and third party stuff
too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond
the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I
can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the
vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very real
problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet polite
when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to say,
and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by initial
only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's
too hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about
attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
want to make the list constructive and these archives by my
choice are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't
like it, as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not
want to moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will
either be moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as
it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite the
bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly
within the control of the blindness community. and really people
as a whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone.
we do not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility
needs, so I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing,
disparraging remarks, the complaining that this isn’t
predictable or how unfair it is that we’re losing hotkeys that
quite frankly nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about, and just
learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or
nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
from Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page
up should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that
won't help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that
such a keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit
easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from
people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I am
going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's
a Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button
while tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to
take the incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do,
you can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older
versions of Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on
your desktop will open the Skype window again. Since I rarely
minimize the Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I
don't know if an incoming call will make that window appear,
that's why I mentioned how to open it while Skype is still
running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
widget, because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
Skype 8 window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up
that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get,
because of spam calls that are made to my phone number,
which I route through Skype specifically so I
can handle such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise
wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering
a call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the same
contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype
tried to initiate a call to that person and simply
connected to the incoming call as a result. This could
easily give the illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if
you are testing the feature and thus are likely to be
showing that exact contact when a call arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi
wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and
a call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway
I can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it
sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami





--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln





























Re: such a waste of intelligent energy

Mike DeZinno
 

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 

At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:
Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we havent been left behind yet.
Thats because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: such a waste of intelligent energy

Shaun Oliver
 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.


Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.


What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.


Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.


I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.


Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.




On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:
Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:
Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: such a waste of intelligent energy

Octavian Rasnita
 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".
 
Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.
It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.
I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.
 
And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.
 
If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.
 
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.


Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.


What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.


Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.


I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.


Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.




On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:
Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:
Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: such a waste of intelligent energy

John Holcomb II
 

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com



 

Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yeah, there os a bit of a bug right now. If you go to the forum itself and click reply privately you will do just that. We are in a conversation with the designer to find out what's going on as there is not a "reply to sender" on some of the footers of the messages. This is actually happening on another list I'm on as well.

On 5 Oct 2018, at 9:40, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think he didn't contact the dude off list because he doesn't know how to get the email address of the person who wrote.
I certainly don’t see how to do this.


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 12:19 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hey don't worry about it brian, I'll let this one slide, but for sure next time if yu can please take that particular discussion off list.

Happy skyping and again don't worry about it.

On 5 Oct 2018, at 8:06, Brian Hartgen wrote:

Hello James
I would have preferred writing to you privately on this matter because
we are a commercial company, and this list is probably not the place
to discuss such matters, but I was unable to obtain your email address
from the message here. Our scripts are available as part of our
product Leasey, or if you purchase our Skype8 training course.
Please write to me at brian@... if you cannot find
the information on our website and you wish to know more.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
James Malone
Sent: 05 October 2018 15:35
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi Brian, can we get the scripts, and how much?

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf
Of Brian Hartgen
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 1:11 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a
thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in
terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms
of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree
that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should
get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there
is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware
that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that
not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does
not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual
impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting
in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who
have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a
challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it
is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar
organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they
want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to
devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts
for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition
from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global
hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has
previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a
training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what
we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition
successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that
the person originally posting to this list about the need for
implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a
very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the
new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA
developers, build such functionality into their respective products by
default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if
they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my
support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the
features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if
the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the
final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear
as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible
under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when
Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them,
with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more
secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for
some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but
also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad
it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what
are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do
what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful
thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean
that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it
useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
mentioned itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made
inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to
accomodate what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to
receive total accessibility, as there is always going to be
developers that will simply throw the concept in to the too hard
basket, simply because it neither affects their bottom line, nor fits
in with their vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even there
at the click of a button. although, due to various bits of
legislature and programming standards set by what I will for the sake
of the argument call The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This
is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience
as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get
anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and
demands to customise the software just so one person is happier and
able to utilise the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the
ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might
be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice and
constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our
level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public,
not for those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because
if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows
7
when compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
under Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for
doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
<marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff
a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go
skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a
fun and joyful experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility
with Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now,
I could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow
as I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all
about making first party software work well, and third party stuff
too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond
the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I
can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the
vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very real
problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet polite
when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to say,
and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by initial
only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's
too hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about
attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
want to make the list constructive and these archives by my
choice are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't
like it, as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not
want to moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will
either be moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as
it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite the
bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly
within the control of the blindness community. and really people
as a whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone.
we do not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility
needs, so I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing,
disparraging remarks, the complaining that this isn’t
predictable or how unfair it is that we’re losing hotkeys that
quite frankly nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about, and just
learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...>
wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or
nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
from Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page
up should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that
won't help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that
such a keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit
easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from
people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I am
going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's
a Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button
while tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to
take the incoming call, you can use that instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do,
you can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older
versions of Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on
your desktop will open the Skype window again. Since I rarely
minimize the Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I
don't know if an incoming call will make that window appear,
that's why I mentioned how to open it while Skype is still
running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
widget, because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
Skype 8 window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up
that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get,
because of spam calls that are made to my phone number,
which I route through Skype specifically so I
can handle such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise
wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering
a call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the same
contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype
tried to initiate a call to that person and simply
connected to the incoming call as a result. This could
easily give the illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if
you are testing the feature and thus are likely to be
showing that exact contact when a call arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi
wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and
a call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway
I can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it
sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami





--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln

































Re: such a waste of intelligent energy

Sarah k Alawami
 

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care

On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com



 

Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

inam din
 

Dear, if you are talking about Skype 8, a good JAWS script is already available and it is free of cost!

JAWS itself has developed a good set of script which supports Skype 8!

In place of having two scripts, I don’t think that Brian should work in this area as long as He finds some good accessibility related things!

With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:

Charlsdarwin1

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> on behalf of James Malone <malone_j@...>
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 7:35:19 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.
 
Hi Brian, can we get the scripts, and how much?

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Hartgen
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 1:11 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that the person originally posting to this list about the need for implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA developers, build such functionality into their respective products by default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen
 

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them, with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


> I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.
>
> While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS.
> Win8 VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of
> overall accessibility, things have only improved, with each above
> mentioned itteration of windows.
>
>
> Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them
> under say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made inaccessible.
>
>
> Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
> themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to accomodate
> what is essentially a minority group.
>
>
> Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group.
> And while as a collective community we have managed to successfully
> campaign for better accessibility overall, we are not about to receive
> total accessibility, as there is always going to be developers that
> will simply throw the concept in to the too hard basket, simply
> because it neither affects their bottom line, nor fits in with their
> vision, or worse yet, don't even know it's even there at the click of
> a button. although, due to various bits of legislature and programming
> standards set by what I will for the sake of the argument call
> The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and Microsoft, This is becoming less and less of an issue.
>
>
> The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say
> Jonathan Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of
> accessibility needs and the advocating of making life as a whole
> easier for us as a community. in spite of my own personal oppinions
> regarding some of teh individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they
> have done a great deal for improving our overall computing experience as a whole.
>
>
> We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
> taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get
> anything done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and
> demands to customise the software just so one person is happier and
> able to utilise the software better.
>
>
> So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
> public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
> constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been
> stated time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the
> ropes so that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might
> be struggling, and thus we can continue providing good advice and
> constructive and helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our level.
>
>
>
> On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>> Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public, not
>> for those who have very specific needs.
>> You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because
>> if you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows 7
>> when compared with the one under Windows XP.
>>
>> And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than
>> under Windows XP.
>>
>> If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
>> those needs don't exist.
>>
>> If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new
>> things, other users might not have time to spend for nothing for doing that.
>>
>> --Octavian
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami"
>> <marrie12@...>
>> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
>> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.
>>
>>
>>> I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff
>>> a few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go
>>> skype on all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a
>>> fun and joyful experience.
>>>
>>> Take care
>>>
>>> On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility with
>>>> Skype and their other products.
>>>> No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now, I
>>>> could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and
>>>> probably get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow as
>>>> I have not used narrator and Skype together, but they're all about
>>>> making first party software work well, and third party stuff too.
>>>>
>>>> Now how amazing is that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
>>>> Shaun Oliver
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
>>>> To: skypeenglish@groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.
>>>>
>>>> and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and
>>>> searchable by the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond
>>>> the realm of possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I
>>>> can say with almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the
>>>> vendor that is being railed against, thus causing very real
>>>> problems in the long run for those of us that are stern yet polite
>>>> when we approach same to discuss overall improvements to
>>>> accessibility for various applications we'd like to make good use
>>>> of in the future. it is those kinds of comments and remarks and
>>>> complaints about how not enough is being done and what is already
>>>> there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole to say,
>>>> and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by initial
>>>> only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's too
>>>> hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.
>>>>
>>>> so I am with Sarah 100% on this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
>>>>> Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also
>>>>> working on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and
>>>>> they will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We
>>>>> want to make the list constructive and these archives by my choice
>>>>> are public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't like it,
>>>>> as my teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not want to
>>>>> moderate the topic but one more bad apple and it will either be
>>>>> moderated or locked. You all have ben forewarned.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as
>>>>>> it was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the
>>>>>> deprecated API and unavailability of the SDK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are
>>>>>> the kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without,
>>>>>> simply because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to
>>>>>> carefully consider accessibility and implement same, despite the
>>>>>> bleeting from the NFB wanting to keep accessibility firmly within
>>>>>> the control of the blindness community. and really people as a
>>>>>> whole, accessibility is not limited to blind people alone. we do
>>>>>> not, nor wil we ever hold the monopoly on accessibility needs, so
>>>>>> I suggest we dispense with the badmouthing, disparraging remarks,
>>>>>> the complaining that this isn’t predictable or how unfair it is
>>>>>> that we’re losing hotkeys that quite frankly nobody gives a
>>>>>> rodent’s rectum about, and just learn the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from Shaun's iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and
>>>>>>> learn the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't
>>>>>>> like it not much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
>>>>>>> Harsh, but true in this case.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take care
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name
>>>>>>>> from Joseph.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
>>>>>>>> <clare.page@...>
>>>>>>>> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>>> It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page up
>>>>>>>>> should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that won't
>>>>>>>>> help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that such a
>>>>>>>>> keystroke is necessary anyway.
>>>>>>>>> Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated
>>>>>>>>> to me , although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit
>>>>>>>>> easier. I am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from
>>>>>>>>> people I know, and in most cases I have warning that I am
>>>>>>>>> going to receive a call, so I go into the Skype window in
>>>>>>>>> Skype 8, which I tend to leave open while Skype is running
>>>>>>>>> anyway, and press Tab till I find the Answer button. There's a
>>>>>>>>> Decline button too, which comes before the Answer button while
>>>>>>>>> tabbing through the window, so if you don't want to take the
>>>>>>>>> incoming call, you can use that instead.
>>>>>>>>> If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do, you
>>>>>>>>> can minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older versions of
>>>>>>>>> Skype, and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on your desktop
>>>>>>>>> will open the Skype window again. Since I rarely minimize the
>>>>>>>>> Skype window while my Skype 8 is running, I don't know if an
>>>>>>>>> incoming call will make that window appear, that's why I
>>>>>>>>> mentioned how to open it while Skype is still running.
>>>>>>>>> I hope this helps!
>>>>>>>>> Bye for now!
>>>>>>>>> From Clare
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
>>>>>>>>> Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
>>>>>>>>> To: skypeenglish@groups.io
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
>>>>>>>>> skype.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Doug,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
>>>>>>>>> stored in default.jss?
>>>>>>>>> If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
>>>>>>>>> Alt+PgUp, and
>>>>>>>>> one of the problems could be solved.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web
>>>>>>>>> widget, because that can't be solved.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --Octavian
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
>>>>>>>>> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
>>>>>>>>> skype.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the
>>>>>>>>>> Skype 8 window.
>>>>>>>>>> Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as
>>>>>>>>>> Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller
>>>>>>>>>> ID, then tab to the Answer button and press Space.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also
>>>>>>>>>> less prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
>>>>>>>>>> situation. This
>>>>>>>>>> situation would be my description of most calls I get,
>>>>>>>>>> because of spam calls that are made to my phone number, which
>>>>>>>>>> I route through Skype specifically so I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> can handle such things intelligently.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say
>>>>>>>>>> the hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering a
>>>>>>>>>> call
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
>>>>>>>>>> skype.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype 8, but that if you happened to be displaying the same
>>>>>>>>>>> contact that called you and you typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype
>>>>>>>>>>> tried to initiate a call to that person and simply connected
>>>>>>>>>>> to the incoming call as a result. This could easily give the
>>>>>>>>>>> illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if you are testing
>>>>>>>>>>> the feature and thus are likely to be showing that exact
>>>>>>>>>>> contact when a call arrives.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and a
>>>>>>>>>>> call arrives, I only used it for starting a call. Anyway I
>>>>>>>>>>> can confirm ctrl+e for ending a call, I tested it sometimes.
>>>>>>>>>>> Bye!
>>>>>>>>>>> Barbuz
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
>>>>>>>>>>> doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "I
>>>>>>>>>>> forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
>>>>>>>>>>> forgetting." --Sarah Alawami
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org Level Access
>>>>>>>>>> doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com "Nearly
>>>>>>>>>> all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
>>>>>>>>>> character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>











Re: such a waste of intelligent energy

Octavian Rasnita
 

It has to do with Skype, because exactly in the same way, Skype 8 will be forever worse than Skype 7 for me.
 
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com



 

Re: such a waste of intelligent energy

Octavian Rasnita
 


Yes Sarah, you are right. But I wonder why do you tell this only to the people that have a different opinion than you.
Why don't you tell that the praises to Skype 8 are also useless and don't make Skype 8 beeing better?
 
I am a reactive person. I usually don't start discussions and flame wars, but I just send my opinions *after* other people send their opinions.
 
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2018 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

The point is, that we are seeing way too much talk and no action
. Someone does not like something and they just complain instead of hitting windows f and submitting feedback on said app(s) Microsoft does in fact listen. I am an insider and have ben for about a year on 1 of their platforms and they do listen. They have fixed several bugs on skype for xbox and windows and mac. So, get that feedback in instead of just wishing for somethingn to happen. If you don't like it, there's the door, and you can uninstall skype off of your system, and find somethingn that is better such as facebook or zoom for that matter, but put your energy to constructive feedback stacks reports, diag logs etc.

Take care
On 5 Oct 2018, at 13:51, John Holcomb II wrote:

What does all of this have to do with Skype ?

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:49 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".

 

Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.

It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.

I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.

 

And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.

 

If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

 

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.

 

Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.

 

What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.

 

Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.

 

I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.

 

Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.

 

 

 

On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:

Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:

Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com



 

Re: such a waste of intelligent energy

Shaun Oliver
 

and that, is what I'm talking about. instead of talking to them, you're moaning here on a forum that has little to do with that which you are complaining about accept for the aspects relating to Skype.


Instead of complaining about it, Reach out and discuss with the developers themselves. they really aren't big scary ogres



On 6/10/2018 06:18, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it".
 
Windows 7 is almost at its end of life, but it is still worse than Windows XP was for me.
It won't be improved anymore, so it will be worse forever.
I used it for many years and I got very used to it, but it still works bad, JAWS reads some strange words in some applications (TextPad), the command prompt works also worse, the version of Outlook Express I use has some limitations, the other email client have some missing features etc.
 
And I can tell you that I tried very many other alternative programs that could work a little better, but none of them have all the features I need.
 
If I'd need to use the computer just for entertainment, all these things wouldn't be a problem, because if something would not be accessible, I can choose to  use something else and that's all.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] such a waste of intelligent energy

to be fair to all and sundry on list, for the most part, the below has happened. people ask, and concise answers were given out.


Granted, it isn't always immediately apparent, hence the reasons for the questions in the first place.


What is a continual bugbear, however, is the incessant moaning as opposed to the more practical reaching out to the developers at the grass roots of the project, calmly explaining what they'd like to see happen in order that their experience with the end-product remains comfortable and unhindered by obstacles they are unable to overcome. Yet, there is point blank refusal to at the very least try, slurs and strongly worded suggestions as to what said conglomerate can do with their current iteration of said end-product, and wishes for deprecated and quite frankly, insecure implementations of underlying software infrastructure, to bring back a product that was flaky at best and a downright headache, even for the more tech savvy among us at worst. There is little need to point fingers, but, it seems to be currently, a trend I'm seeing, and while it is not necessarily endemic to our own community, it is something that is more prevalent than it needs to be.


Quite frankly, older software and operating systems are being done away with, because they have security holes and are based on now defunct code and deprecated practices. Windows XP, for instance, hasn't been supported for the better part of three years, yet, there are still people out there using it on the internet, even knowing that it is a security risk to their home or corporate networks. It's only going to be a couple of years, before win7 is similarly no longer supported, and people the world over, even though they are better informed, are going to continue to use it, knowing they're placing themselves and everyone else they interact with at risk.


I digress, however. What I'm ultimately saying is this.


Don't fight change simply for the sake of fighting it and because what yu are using is comfortable, be an instrument of change, and calmly, logically and reasonably enter in to discourse with those in the know, and insure that the things you want and need are there in future iterations of said software and your lives and mine, will be considerably better for it. not to mention the myriad others that would doubtless thank you for your efforts in insuring they have as smooth a transition and as great an experience as they enjoy currently.




On 6/10/2018 02:57, Mike DeZinno wrote:
Amen, Lewis!
I've been using a talking computer since 1987, and the same scare and fear tactics have ripped through the blind community every year for those 31 years since my first computer spoke its first words.

Change is inevitable, and life is all about constant change.
And as my sainted mother told me when I was a 11 year old blind kid who couldn't join a little league team;
"the value of your life isn't determined by the few things you can't do, but rather by the many things you can do!"

We would all be better served here in our Skype community if we just asked how-to questions and just gave each other non judgmental answers.
State the problem or situation and then sit back, chill for a few, and wait for someone to share some  solutions.

Besides science has proven, you live longer when you learn how to just accept life's little jabs to your soul. LOL

Stay well and have a great fun weekend,
Mike in SC
 
At 11:38 AM 10/5/2018, you wrote:
Hello friends,
I see so much wasted energy being wasted on a subject that has been argued to the point of trying to ride a dead mule.
The new skype is here and its not going away. No company in the world goes backward, and its not going to happen with skype.
All this intelligent energy should be expended towards helping each other to access, understand and use the new program to our fullest abilities, so that we are ready and able to improve our use of the program, as the needed accessibility fixes come along.
As long as blind people have been using computers, the improvements regarding accessibility have come along, and guess what, we haven’t been left behind yet.
That’s because of good common sense advocacy for accessibility and the willingness of blind computer users to use what we have so we are comfortable with existing programs,
which makes it much easier for when much needed improvements are developed in order to turn our experience into a smooth transition .
We all want the same thing as it relates to accessibility. Just think how much someone like myself could have learned if all of these angry messages were full of helpful questions and answers for using the new skype?
Catcha later from Lewis!
 
**KISS AN ANGEL GOOD MORNING!

Virus-free. www.avg.com