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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
lol Josephine, when I was going to school, the Internet didn’t exist,
people did not have computers in their homes, windows were made to let in the
light, a tablet was something you took when you weren’t feeling well, and a
mouse was something you probably didn’t want inside your home ... oh the good
old days!
Pete H.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: Josephine Hirsch
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:01 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
When I was going to school, I never heard of screenreaders nor screen
magnifiers
On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two
Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure
things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy. I expect the same when the time
comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades
with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time. You’re both right.
From: Shaun
Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it,
but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I
respect.
you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being
contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again,
that, I respect.
On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II
wrote:
I’ve never had anyone who I upgraded to
Windows 10 have any issues.
And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its
close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all
some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with
skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.
Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out
scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.
And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d
be the first person to tell us here.
Now I’ve e not upgraded my Skype because I
choose not to. Not because I think it won’t work. There’s a
difference.
Just like I choose to stay on Windows 7. For
my main driver.
But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of
me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it
work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the
curcers to get around screen if nothing else.
But all and all, I trust Doug who made the
scripts that he wouldn’t put out a halfassed unworkable
product.
John
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear
contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been
warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype
preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web
style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at
least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you
have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating
Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any
one individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under
windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful
vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer
an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and
hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes,
things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is
true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility
these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in
fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your
oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the
wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.
On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in
about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my
youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with
nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used
to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't
have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7.
:)
Getting used to something means effort and time
consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something
new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in
Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have
an API that can be used for sending chat messages from
programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for
Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably
never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is
similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer
is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse
accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I
guess that this is the most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows
10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows
10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the
next update, so this is also not very useful.
----- Original Message -----
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 07,
2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It
is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so
give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of
impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie
wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them
to get their act together.
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018
8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com
This is really good news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative
feedback on the new version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like
it.
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00
PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
<
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|
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Re: Skype sounds on an iPhone
Speaking of Skype, a lot of people have the phones in their palms, meaning that they do everything on their phones such as online banking and paying their merchandises by phones. I only use Skype on my laptop or on the iPad. iPhones, and Android devices are too expensive for me plus, I am on a fixed income.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 8/9/2018 6:29 PM, Shaun Oliver wrote: I suffer a bit of industrial deafness myself, due to working in a band and years of radio work, both terestrial and internet.
while customising the sounds would be nice, it's not a show stopper for me.
On 10/08/2018 08:48, John Holcomb II wrote:
Some people have hearing impairments, like me. Being able to change the sound to something that wil more easily be heard would be a nice option. Take Skype for iPhone. What if the person has a low/mid frequency loss and needs something very high pitched in order to hear the ring?
Not all people with hard of hearing issues have braille displays.
-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:08 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.
On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I
know someone wants my attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Exactly. Like in the 90's, I did not like computers that much
except I used computers for educational uses besides it wasn't
easy for me to learn English nieghter. I wasn't interested into
computers until 2001.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 8/9/2018 6:37 PM, Pete via Groups.Io
wrote:
lol Josephine, when I was going to school, the Internet
didn’t exist, people did not have computers in their homes,
windows were made to let in the light, a tablet was
something you took when you weren’t feeling well, and a
mouse was something you probably didn’t want inside your
home ... oh the good old days!
Pete H.
From: Josephine Hirsch
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:01 AM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
When I was going to school, I never heard of
screenreaders nor screen magnifiers
On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry
Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7
would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works,
until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said,
I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype,
with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy. I expect the
same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada
when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time. You’re both right.
From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45
PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com
and thank you john, you therefore prove my point,
you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't
wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.
you are neither complaining for complaining sake,
nor are you being contrary and fighting change
just because you prefer the status quo. again,
that, I respect.
On 10/08/2018 07:47,
John Holcomb II wrote:
I’ve never had anyone
who I upgraded to Windows 10 have any
issues.
And while I don’t use
W10 as my primary driver, its close enough
to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact,
narrator might be all some people need. And
if any screene reader is going to work great
with skype over anything else, it’ll be
first party hardware.
Also I think Doug
wouldn’t be putting out scripts and NVDA
addons if skype did not work with them.
And if something for
some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first
person to tell us here.
Now I’ve e not
upgraded my Skype because I choose not to.
Not because I think it won’t work. There’s
a difference.
Just like I choose
to stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.
But if someone
slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and
said here are scripts, you have no choice,
I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been
using computers and screne readers and know
how to use the curcers to get around screen
if nothing else.
But all and all, I
trust Doug who made the scripts that he
wouldn’t put out a halfassed unworkable
product.
John
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely
going to not only appear contrary, but, quite
harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have
been warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though
it is still called Skype preview, is very easy
to navigate. if you have experience navigating
a web style interface, you can navigate skype
without issue. If you've yet to at least gain
competency in navigating a web interface or
similar, then you have nobody to blame but
yourself for the issues you're facing
navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively
here I am not pointing the finger at any one
individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different
under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As
for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use
of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your
tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make
it an informed oppinion not filled with
supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite
stable. and as is with any other platform,
yes, things break. sometimes majorly when
there's an update, but, the same is true of
both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to
feedback about accessibility these days, but,
they listen to feedback about what's broken
and fix it in fairly short order. So have a
care how you speak, because unless your
oppinions are based on actual provable
evidence, you are talking out of the wrong
orifice and need to give the other one a go.
On 10/08/2018 02:47,
Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Actualy skype 8 for windows is
equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering
around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don’t believe
me go to my
youtube page. I can get
around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:
"just
takes geting used to".
Yes, but
this, and the fact that it
doesn't have some features that
Skype 7 has, makes it worse than
Skype 7. :)
Getting
used to something means effort
and time consumed, and Skype 7
doesn't require this.
It is
good to consume time to learn
something new that helps, but
for the moment I've seen only
missing features in Skype 8, not
new helpful things that we can
do with it.
It would
be great for example if it will
have an API that can be used for
sending chat messages from
programs.
I see you
compare Skype 8 with the version
for Mac, but most Skype users
use it under Windows and they
will probably never intend to
use Mac, so for them is not
helpful at all if Skype 8 is
similar with the one for Mac, or
if the Mac style of using the
computer is more friendly with
Skype 8, or anything Mac
related.
The truth
is that Skype 8 is much worse
accessible than Skype 7 when it
is used under Windows with JAWS,
and I guess that this is the
most used combination.
I don't
know how easy is to use it with
Windows 10 yet, but from what I
read from other blind Windows 10
users, Windows 10 is not stable
yet, and some updates can damage
some things until the next
update, so this is also not very
useful.
-----
Original Message -----
To:
skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent:
Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39
PM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it
every day for my streams and
my jobs. It is 100 percent
accessible and usable and
just takes geting used to,
so give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at
20:34, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
new version of
Skype really sucks, and
is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless
if you have any type of
impairment
On
8/6/2018 10:09 PM,
Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I
definitely put my
feedback in there
and told them to get
their act together.
From:
skypeenglish@groups.io
[mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io]
On Behalf Of
Jerry Pryde
Sent:
Tuesday, 7
August 2018 8:33
a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject:
Re:
[skypeenglish]
Microsoft
Backtracks,
Classic Skype
Lives to See
Another Day -
Thurrott.com
This is
really good
news.
It sounds
like they’ve
gotten some
seriously
negative
feedback on
the new
version.
I’ve even
heard from
people with
sight that
don’t like it.
Sent:
Monday, August
06, 2018 2:00
PM
To:
skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject:
[skypeenglish]
Microsoft
Backtracks,
Classic Skype
Lives to See
Another Day -
Thurrott.com
<
|
|
|
Re: Skype sounds on an iPhone
I’m really at a loss to understand why so many on this list are in such an fit about this. I have found skype 8 actually easier. They just updated it. Look how long it took for all of windows 10 to work. This isn’t Microsoft it’s the industry generally. There in such a rush largely because in business unfortunately you have deadlines. It’s not the end of the world if we blind skype users have to relearn something is it? From my perspective skype eight looks easier. For one thing I don’t have to go to the system tray or task manager to shut it down. Also I had a strange issue with 7.4. when I’d end a missed all, and I’d get that show hidden conversations and I do that suddenly everything just vanished. All NVDA said was “paine. Skype was still there but it was as if NVDA had gone blind. To fix it had to shut skype down and restart it. I have only discovered one curious thing that is skype can’t seem to see my plentronics headset microphone. It only recognizes the realtech high def sound card for my external speaker and the desktop mic. Obviously something has to be changed so I can use skype with either. So there are things I still need to learn like how to hear voicemails and some other things. I think Microsoft has backtracked because sighted users don’t like skype’s look. Just like sighted users hated windows 8 and 8.1. it had no windows desktop and or the classic start menue. So much was wow touch screens the wave of the future. But this is the way with tech companies these days. It is so competitive and so much of get this done now that sometimes. Quality control issues and or bugs come up. Look how many times and how often IOS has some issue with an update. If it’s not braille display it’s something with voice-over. There is nothing wrong with having to relearn how to use something is there. Isn’t that really what this list is all about? We as blind/visually impaired sholdn’t bellyache every time something new comes out in an older product. As a member of technology division of national federation of the blind of NJ I’m very aware of the need for accessible products but sometimes it’s we the blind who must learn to adapt. I felt the same way about the end of the braille division in NFB and it becoming a committee. I emailed both national and state presidents stating that I thought it was a major step backwards and wanted to be sure that as a committee rather than a division we wouldn’t lose or at very least scale back the federation’s commitment to braille. I will be losing a board seat with the division being downgraded to a committee. I am also assuming the office of president of the friends of the NJ library for the blind. Since they serve all blind in NJ I needed to know what if anything to tell the members of the friends. Would they shoulder more of the task of bettering braille literacy. The reasons for the downgrade have been explained and it’s not that the mission is accomplished but rather apparently in some places membership in state divisions is down and the need to bring members more actively into other parts of NFB is there. In our state we have a very strong braille division so the downgrade probably won’t be too much noticed. Also our braille division members are all very active in other parts. So you see folks we sometime have to adapt. We can’t expect Microsoft or anyone else to adapt for us. That doesn’t mean we stop educating tech companies but we should stop demanding of them. We should teach as well as learn. Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Shaun OliverSent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 7:29 PM To: skypeenglish@groups.ioSubject: Re: [skypeenglish] Skype sounds on an iPhone I suffer a bit of industrial deafness myself, due to working in a band and years of radio work, both terestrial and internet. while customising the sounds would be nice, it's not a show stopper for me. On 10/08/2018 08:48, John Holcomb II wrote: > Some people have hearing impairments, like me. Being able to change the sound to something that wil more easily be heard would be a nice option. Take Skype for iPhone. What if the person has a low/mid frequency loss and needs something very high pitched in order to hear the ring? > Not all people with hard of hearing issues have braille displays. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:08 PM > To: skypeenglish@groups.io > Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com > > customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog. > On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote: >> Hello Shaun, >> 3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7, >> and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I >> hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I >> know someone wants my attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version? >> I'm 100% sure it was not. > > >
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Re: Skype sounds on an iPhone
Good points Ken. Now stop the bitching and complainig folks.
Sent from
Mail for Windows 10
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> on behalf of ken lawrence via Groups.Io <kenlawrence124@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 8:14:16 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Skype sounds on an iPhone
I’m really at a loss to understand why so many on this list are in such an fit about this. I have found skype 8 actually easier. They just updated it. Look how long it took for all of windows 10 to work. This isn’t Microsoft it’s the industry
generally. There in such a rush largely because in business unfortunately you have deadlines. It’s not the end of the world if we blind skype users have to relearn something is it? From my perspective skype eight looks easier. For one thing I don’t have to
go to the system tray or task manager to shut it down. Also I had a strange issue with 7.4. when I’d end a missed all, and I’d get that show hidden conversations and I do that suddenly everything just vanished. All NVDA said was “paine. Skype was still there
but it was as if NVDA had gone blind. To fix it had to shut skype down and restart it. I have only discovered one curious thing that is skype can’t seem to see my plentronics headset microphone. It only recognizes the realtech high def sound card for my
external speaker and the desktop mic. Obviously something has to be changed so I can use skype with either. So there are things I still need to learn like how to hear voicemails and some other things. I think Microsoft has backtracked because sighted users
don’t like skype’s look. Just like sighted users hated windows 8 and 8.1. it had no windows desktop and or the classic start menue. So much was wow touch screens the wave of the future. But this is the way with tech companies these days. It is so competitive
and so much of get this done now that sometimes. Quality control issues and or bugs come up. Look how many times and how often IOS has some issue with an update. If it’s not braille display it’s something with voice-over. There is nothing wrong with having
to relearn how to use something is there. Isn’t that really what this list is all about? We as blind/visually impaired sholdn’t bellyache every time something new comes out in an older product. As a member of technology division of national federation of
the blind of NJ I’m very aware of the need for accessible products but sometimes it’s we the blind who must learn to adapt. I felt the same way about the end of the braille division in NFB and it becoming a committee. I emailed both national and state presidents
stating that I thought it was a major step backwards and wanted to be sure that as a committee rather than a division we wouldn’t lose or at very least scale back the federation’s commitment to braille. I will be losing a board seat with the division being
downgraded to a committee. I am also assuming the office of president of the friends of the NJ library for the blind. Since they serve all blind in NJ I needed to know what if anything to tell the members of the friends. Would they shoulder more of the task
of bettering braille literacy. The reasons for the downgrade have been explained and it’s not that the mission is accomplished but rather apparently in some places membership in state divisions is down and the need to bring members more actively into other
parts of NFB is there. In our state we have a very strong braille division so the downgrade probably won’t be too much noticed. Also our braille division members are all very active in other parts. So you see folks we sometime have to adapt. We can’t expect
Microsoft or anyone else to adapt for us. That doesn’t mean we stop educating tech companies but we should stop demanding of them. We should teach as well as learn.
Sent from
Mail for Windows 10
I suffer a bit of industrial deafness myself, due to working in a band
and years of radio work, both terestrial and internet.
while customising the sounds would be nice, it's not a show stopper for me.
On 10/08/2018 08:48, John Holcomb II wrote:
> Some people have hearing impairments, like me. Being able to change the sound to something that wil more easily be heard would be a nice option. Take Skype for iPhone. What if the person has a low/mid frequency loss and needs something
very high pitched in order to hear the ring?
> Not all people with hard of hearing issues have braille displays.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:08 PM
> To: skypeenglish@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
>
> customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.
> On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
>> Hello Shaun,
>> 3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
>> and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
>> hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I
>> know someone wants my attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
>> I'm 100% sure it was not.
>
>
>
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Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra
Joseph Hudson <jhud7789@...>
Command shift our did not work. Joseph Hudson Email jhud7789@... I device support Telephone 2543007667 Skype joseph.hudson89 facebook https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404Twitter https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 FaceTime/iMessage jhud7789@... And now finally, if none of the above options work well for you. I have a room on zoom as well. The link and instructions to join won't be below Hi there, Joseph Hudson is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Topic: Joseph Hudson's Zoom Meeting Time: Apr 10, 2018 10:30 PM Central Time (US and Canada) Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://zoom.us/j/502788655Or iPhone one-tap : US: +16699006833,,502788655# or +16468769923,,502788655# Or Telephone: Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location): US: +1 669 900 6833 or +1 646 876 9923 Meeting ID: 502 788 655 International numbers available: https://zoom.us/u/dkZ76Qvjp
On Aug 9, 2018, at 12:19 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
You can hit command shift r then swit h it to a video call later I believe.
Take care
On 9 Aug 2018, at 0:10, Joseph Hudson wrote:
Hi Mac users, I've taken the plans, and reinstalled the latest version of Skype on my MacBook Pro. I want to go call one of my friends on Skype, and every time I hit the audio call or video call button, it takes me right back into the chat window. What is going on. I even tried to call Skype test call service and it doesn't even work. If anybody wants to try it with me. Skype is the following.
joseph.hudson89
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Sarah k Alawami
I dunno, I guess keep trying. It all works here for me. Try the link again.
Anyway try that and then look for any stream where I am using skype especially the last one.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 9 Aug 2018, at 13:53, SUNRISE DREAMER wrote:
Hello Sarah, I clicked on your youtube link, but once I’m there, none of the links activate for me. Maybe I’m doing something simply wrong? (Smiles) From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 12:17 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda. On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote: "just takes geting used to". Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :) Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this. It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it. It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs. I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related. The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination. I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote: new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote: Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together. This is really good news. It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version. I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it. Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Sarah k Alawami
Actually in my case incomign chats are not read at least wiht nvda. They are when I’m in the skype window but on windows or mac they are not when outside so I do miss a lot there.
Take care
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 9 Aug 2018, at 16:08, Shaun Oliver wrote: separate chat windows? really that wastes more resources.
on windows, press alt+1 and you're in the conversation list, and by default, it's set to organise by time, so you can easily find the conversation you need to interact with.
as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need them. incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them easily enough.
customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.
it really is of no consequense and while both sighted and blidn people are complaining bitterly about it, I've yet to find a drawback with this latest interface.
On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.
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Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra
Sarah k Alawami
Works here. I use it all the time. In fact I’ve ben updated to skype
8.27 for a few days now and didn’t know it. Command shift r works
every single time.. Keep trying I guess.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 18:55, Joseph Hudson wrote:
Command shift our did not work.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789@...
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7789@...
And now finally, if none of the above options work well for you. I
have a room on zoom as well. The link and instructions to join won't
be below
Hi there,
Joseph Hudson is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: Joseph Hudson's Zoom Meeting
Time: Apr 10, 2018 10:30 PM Central Time (US and Canada)
Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://zoom.us/j/502788655
Or iPhone one-tap :
US: +16699006833,,502788655# or +16468769923,,502788655#
Or Telephone:
Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current
location):
US: +1 669 900 6833 or +1 646 876 9923
Meeting ID: 502 788 655
International numbers available: https://zoom.us/u/dkZ76Qvjp
On Aug 9, 2018, at 12:19 PM, Sarah k Alawami marrie12@...
wrote:
You can hit command shift r then swit h it to a video call later I
believe.
Take care
On 9 Aug 2018, at 0:10, Joseph Hudson wrote:
Hi Mac users, I've taken the plans, and reinstalled the latest
version of Skype on my MacBook Pro. I want to go call one of my
friends on Skype, and every time I hit the audio call or video call
button, it takes me right back into the chat window. What is going
on. I even tried to call Skype test call service and it doesn't even
work. If anybody wants to try it with me. Skype is the following.
joseph.hudson89
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
that's why I turn notifications on, but, to be fair, that is spirratic at best
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 10/08/2018 13:19, Sarah k Alawami wrote: Actually in my case incomign chats are not read at least wiht nvda. They are when I’m in the skype window but on windows or mac they are not when outside so I do miss a lot there.
Take care
On 9 Aug 2018, at 16:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:
separate chat windows? really that wastes more resources.
on windows, press alt+1 and you're in the conversation list, and by default, it's set to organise by time, so you can easily find the conversation you need to interact with.
as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need them. incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them easily enough.
customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.
it really is of no consequense and while both sighted and blidn people are complaining bitterly about it, I've yet to find a drawback with this latest interface.
On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.
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Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra
Joseph Hudson <jhud7789@...>
Well unfortunately none of the commands work though off to look for advice from other individuals. Because all it does went to Brandy she had a call, is as it says missed call on the other persons account. Anytime I go to initiate a call but then I can going initiate a call on my iPhone and it works perfectly fine. So something is wrong. The only thing that's not cooperating, is the volume setting. I turned all all the way up to 10, and it goes right back down to zero. So Let's see anything that's wrong.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Aug 9, 2018, at 10:54 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
Works here. I use it all the time. In fact I’ve ben updated to skype 8.27 for a few days now and didn’t know it. Command shift r works every single time.. Keep trying I guess.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 18:55, Joseph Hudson wrote:
Command shift our did not work.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789@...
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89
FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7789@...
And now finally, if none of the above options work well for you. I have a room on zoom as well. The link and instructions to join won't be below
Hi there,
Joseph Hudson is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.
Topic: Joseph Hudson's Zoom Meeting
Time: Apr 10, 2018 10:30 PM Central Time (US and Canada)
Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://zoom.us/j/502788655
Or iPhone one-tap :
US: +16699006833,,502788655# or +16468769923,,502788655#
Or Telephone:
Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
US: +1 669 900 6833 or +1 646 876 9923
Meeting ID: 502 788 655
International numbers available: https://zoom.us/u/dkZ76Qvjp
On Aug 9, 2018, at 12:19 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
You can hit command shift r then swit h it to a video call later I believe.
Take care
On 9 Aug 2018, at 0:10, Joseph Hudson wrote:
Hi Mac users, I've taken the plans, and reinstalled the latest version of Skype on my MacBook Pro. I want to go call one of my friends on Skype, and every time I hit the audio call or video call button, it takes me right back into the chat window. What is going on. I even tried to call Skype test call service and it doesn't even work. If anybody wants to try it with me. Skype is the following.
joseph.hudson89
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Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra
Ok guys, I think you need to press enter before making a call in order to open the chat. I noticed that without doing it, starting a call does not work.
Bye!
Barbuz
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
I see you are speaking about respect in the same
phrases where you swear a lot. If I don't like a screen reader and I tell this,
it doesn't mean disrespect for that screen reader. It is surely very good for
others, but I just don't like it. That's all.
Or in your book is acceptable only the preference
of those who have the same preferences as yours?
Sarah said that She likes Skype 8 because it is
good for her and I said that I don't like it because it is not good for me, and
I also explained why.
This doesn't mean that
She is wrong, because I'm sure that for her it is OK. But this doesn't mean that
it should be the same for everyone.
You really show disrespect by using bad words
towards somebody that just tells that has other preferences or needs than
yours.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:38
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
wrong.
utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.
Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect
towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died years
ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent among the blinux
community about 15 years ago and you have yet to change.
and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and is
also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my original
point.
in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web page. if
you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just about navigate any
web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.
Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary because
that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and set them against
you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be to you, a valid point.
shooting down someone else's view point, or preference for screenreader,
moreover, shooting down the efforts of two people whose motis operandi is,
was, to provide a product comparable to what used to be known as the big
three, is the hight of disrespect and is utterly gauche, in my book.
Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit here
and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.
On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of different
versions of a program can be partially measured by the number of keystrokes
and hotkeys needed to do a certain thing.
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for
example double, it means that the new version is twice as hard to use and
consumes more time and brain.
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8
from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not
NVDA, then yes, I think I might got used to it and consider it better after
a time of using it.
The ideal application is the one that doesn't
need to be used at all. :)
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how
to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you
use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the
interface lightning fast. They work well.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no
offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is
way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot
down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to
it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in
about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people
are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things.
:-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it
less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it
is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or
MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen
reader under Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it.
I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted
and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one
offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the
entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one.
Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for
the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible
numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to
use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other
people this might not be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there
aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any
advantage yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as
good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this
doesn't make it better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on
our different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for
sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need
to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with
somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps
one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without
doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I
know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in
System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't
remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear
too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed
to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you
need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't
change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations
to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in
about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day
on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it
farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some
features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and
Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps,
but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not
new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can
be used for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most
Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never
intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is
similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the
computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac
related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype
7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this
is the most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but
from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is
not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the
next update, so this is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It
is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used
to, so give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of
impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told
them to get their act together.
This is really good
news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some
seriously negative feedback on the new
version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent:
Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Hi Andre,
Very well said. You pointed even more bad things in Skype 8 than me.
Regarding Slack, many people past to Slack because it offers more features, it offers the possibility of integration with many other web sites, it offers an API, so messages can be sent automaticly by applications, while Microsoft disabled even that poor Skype API that was offered in past.
But if you think that MS wants to copy Slack is even worse, because Slack is accessible, but bnot very friendly for the blind. They made some improvements in accessibility after I reported them, but not very fast, and not complete, and not all accessibility complaints were solved yet.
It is bad if MS wants to copy just the interface which is not very friendly for us, but doesn't start by first copying the backend features that makes Slack good.
--Octavian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Polykanine" < @Menelion> To: "Shaun Oliver" <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Hello Shaun, Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh then. Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a *messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place. So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7: 1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager, another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome gestures in a single window. 2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean, really? 3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7, and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version? I'm 100% sure it was not. 4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat with sighted people, you understand my point: Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages. 5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a professional messenger. 6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you serious? 7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible, but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came. Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was special and particular, everyone used it just because it was comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8 interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell phones. If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't, unfortunately. -- With best regards from Ukraine, Andre Skype: menelion_elensule Twitter (English only): @AndrePolykanine ------------ Original message ------------ From: Shaun Oliver <blindman75@...> To: skypeenglish@groups.io Date created: , 1:06:43 AM Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned. Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual. Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit! Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX. Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go. On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote: Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page.I can get around it farily quickly with nvda. On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote: "just takes geting used to". Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :) Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this. It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it. It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs. I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related. The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination. I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful. --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah k Alawami To: skypeenglish@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance. On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote: new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote: Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together. From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m. To: skypeenglish@groups.io Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com This is really good news. It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version. I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it. Long Live Skype Classic. From: John Holcomb II Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM To: skypeenglish@groups.io Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-dayVirus-free. www.avast.com <
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Well Sarah, this is really bad news. The "so I do miss a lot there" is not acceptable for me at all, because I can't tell my boss "sorry boss", but I missed your urgent requirement you gave me yesterday. This kind of problems can make me lose my job.
--Octavian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Actually in my case incomign chats are not read at least wiht nvda. They are when I’m in the skype window but on windows or mac they are not when outside so I do miss a lot there.
Take care
On 9 Aug 2018, at 16:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:
separate chat windows? really that wastes more resources.
on windows, press alt+1 and you're in the conversation list, and by default, it's set to organise by time, so you can easily find the conversation you need to interact with.
as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need them. incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them easily enough.
customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.
it really is of no consequense and while both sighted and blidn people are complaining bitterly about it, I've yet to find a drawback with this latest interface.
On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Thank you Doug. You seem to understand better my English. :-)
I have nothing against NVDA. I like the fact that it is open source. I know that it may be better in some cases than JAWS.
I just prefer JAWS these days for what I need to do in present, but this
doesn't mean that I will never prefer NVDA for sure.
You said that the virtual cursor can be turned off in Skype 8 and the app
will work better. In that case it won't work like a web app and it might be
a little bit better. If this is true, then I also question the need for
using it as a web-based app.
Anyway, thank you again for your great work, because without it, Skype would have been much less friendlier than it is, no matter if it used native Windows objects or a web interface.
--Octavian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:05 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com I honestly don't see, in Octavian's post, anything I could reasonably
describe as:
- "Disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference." The
"JAWS, not NVDA" remark read, to me, as simply a statement of
practicality. Rewritten, I would put it, "I would likely get used to it if
it were quicker to
use with JAWS. (I'm not an NVDA user, so the NVDA efficiency in this app
won't affect me much.)"
- "Disparaging remarks and commentary." The above remark is the only one
that I could make seem so, and only after your response made me look
twice.
- "Shooting down someone else's viewpoint." Frankly I would say you're
doing more "shooting" than anyone at the moment. I can read, "utterly,
incontrovertibly wrong," thus. :-)
You refer to a Blinux community history that is 15 years old. Many on this
list were probably not around for that, due to age or happenstance; my
case surely being the latter. :-) That history probably gives you a view
of the
poster you're aiming at here, but that view is not shared, at least by the
same cause, by many others here unless I miss my mark.
The advice for users to know their screen readers is of course wise.
Personal preferences aside, I prove that Skype 8 is usable by the fact
that I've used nothing else for months. I do disable the virtual cursor in
JAWS, Browse mode in NVDA, most of the time though; so I question the view
that web navigation is the best approach for Skype 8 and other similar
Electron apps. But it is *a* means of managing much of the app, for those
who
wish to do it that way.
Finally, I humbly suggest that the best response to the widely varying
degree of screen reader familiarity out there is education more than
vituperation. You are right that some resist change, new learning, etc. -
in all
communities and not just ours - but that is, really, a subject outside the
scope of a Skype-specific mailing list.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:08:21AM +0930, Shaun Oliver wrote:
wrong.
utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.
Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect
towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died
years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent
among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to
change.
and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and
is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my
original point.
in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web
page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just
about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.
Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary
because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and
set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be
to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or
preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of two
people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable to
what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect and
is utterly gauche, in my book.
Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit
here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.
On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can be
partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do
a certain thing.
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means
that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and
brain.
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I
might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.
The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all.
:)
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]Sarah k Alawami
To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how
to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you
use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around
the interface lightning fast. They work well.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no
offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10
is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their
foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are
used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the
same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some
applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it
with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I
want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to
the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the
style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I
refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad
at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might
not be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't
just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make
it better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think
how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to
stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able
to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to
start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to
open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just
muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very
fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without
thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of
working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want
as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [3]Sarah k Alawami
To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don't believe me go to my youtube page. I can
get around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that
Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7
doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for
the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful
things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used
for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype
users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use
Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the
one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly
with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it
is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used
combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I
read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this
is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [5]Sarah k Alawami
To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it
a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their
act together.
From: [7]skypeenglish@groups.io [[8]mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: [9]skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
This is really good news.
It sounds like they've gotten some seriously negative feedback on the
new version.
I've even heard from people with sight that don't like it.
Long Live Skype Classic.
From: [10]John Holcomb II
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
To: [11]skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com
[12]https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16
5295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day
[13][LINK]
Virus-free. [14]www.avast.com
<
References
1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:marrie12@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:marrie12@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
10. mailto:@JHRadio
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
12.
https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day
13.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
14.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
15. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/2953
16.
mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
17.
mailto:blindman75@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
18. https://groups.io/mt/24211481/409874
19. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
20. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
21. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
22. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
23. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them
to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
I have a Skype 7 that has multiple chat windows and I don't have any problem
with the resources.
From Andre's message it looks that there are more problems with the consumed
resources in Skype 8 with a single window than with Skype 7 with multiple
windows.
"as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need them.
incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them".
The incoming chats are read automaticly only when Skype application is the
active application.
Plus that in many cases, some people may need to re-read for many times the
chat messages. If somebody uses Skype just for saying hello and asking about
weather, then he might not need to re-read it the chat messages, but there
are people that use Skype for work and they might need to be able to
re-read, plus copy some text from the messages etc.
"customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite
plainly.".
I also don't have any problems with Skype's sounds, but why do you think
that this should be true for everybody?
If something is OK for you it doesn't mean that it should be also OK for the others.
And if the others say that something is not OK, it doesn't mean that they don't respect your opinion. They just say that for them is not OK and that's all.
"as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what
is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource
hog.".
I don't understand this statement. What has the API to do with the resources
used by the application?
The API should be able to do what the graphical interface is able to do, but
without using resources for the GUI.
Of course that if somebody uses the API too hard, and sends lots of messages or do other
hard work, then yes, the resources can be affected, but the usage can be
limited by the API itself.
--Octavian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:08 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com separate chat windows? really that wastes more resources.
on windows, press alt+1 and you're in the conversation list, and by
default, it's set to organise by time, so you can easily find the
conversation you need to interact with.
as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need
them. incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them
easily enough.
customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly.
as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what
is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a
resource hog.
it really is of no consequense and while both sighted and blidn people are
complaining bitterly about it, I've yet to find a drawback with this
latest interface.
On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I
know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group
chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what
to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Well, I believe you.
Maybe for you was a false
alarm, but for me it was not a false alarm at all.
TextPad works much much
worse under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, some lines of text are skipped,
some strange pieces of text are spoken by JAWS at the beginning of some lines, I
also tested many other editors and none of them have the features I need, the MS
DOS prompt is not read as well as under Windows XP in some cases etc.
And
these are not things I need rarely, but permanently in my day by day
work.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:52
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Shaun and John.
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two
Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure
things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy. I expect the same when the time
comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades
with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time. You’re both right.
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it,
but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I
respect.
you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being
contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again,
that, I respect.
On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II
wrote:
I’ve never had anyone
who I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.
And while I don’t use W10
as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In
fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is
going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party
hardware.
Also I think Doug
wouldn’t be putting out scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work
with them.
And if something for some
reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us
here.
Now I’ve e not upgraded
my Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think it won’t
work. There’s a difference.
Just like I choose
to stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.
But if someone slapped
Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no
choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne
readers and know how to use the curcers to get around screen if
nothing else.
But all and all, I trust
Doug who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a
halfassed unworkable product.
John
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear
contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been
warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype
preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web
style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at
least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you
have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating
Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any
one individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under
windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful
vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer
an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and
hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes,
things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is
true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility
these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in
fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your
oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the
wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.
On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
Actualy skype 8 for
windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just
tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t
believe me go to my youtube
page. I can get around it farily quickly with
nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27,
Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just
takes geting used to".
Yes, but this,
and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes
it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to
something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require
this.
It is good to
consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've
seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we
can do with it.
It would be
great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending
chat messages from programs.
I see you
compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it
under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for
them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac,
or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8,
or anything Mac related.
The truth is
that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under
Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used
combination.
I don't know how
easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other
blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates
can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very
useful.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not
true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent
accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a
chance.
On 6
Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
new
version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders
regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018
10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I
definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act
together.
This is
really good news.
It sounds
like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new
version.
I’ve even
heard from people with sight that don’t like
it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
<
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
"NVDA gives you a better overview from a sighted person's perspective as
to what's on the screen and, from a developer stand point as to the
structure and window layout of an application.".
Regarding the structure of the application, yes, you are right.
It is helpful from a developer point of view.
I needed from NVDA to be able to help me determine the coordinate of the
mouse pointer, find the shape of the mouse arrow, to be able to help me
click with the mouse, then drag and drop in another coordinate on screen etc.
But this was not possible in past. I asked other NVDA users, and in past I
also asked on NVDA mailing list, but I got no answers about how I can do
these things, so I assumed it was not possible. And in past there were also applications that were not
accessible with NVDA. This made me prefer JAWS.
I'm sure most users don't need these things, so NVDA is surely very OK for
them, but if I just tell that I have other preferences it doesn't mean that
I don't have respect for NVDA.
--Octavian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:22 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com maybe, but discounting one thing over another, is wrong in my book, I
don't discount jaws, even though as a personal preference, I refuse to use
it. that does not mean to say I am any less competent for using jaws as
opposed to NVDA or whatever else might be out there.
at their core, their basic functionality is the same. and in reality, NVDA
gives you a better overview from a sighted person's perspective as to
what's on the screen and, from a developer stand point as to the structure
and window layout of an application.
JAWS has only recently begun to do this, where as NVDA have been doing it
for years. as has voiceover on the mac.
Yes it comes down to personal preference, and yes, quite a lot of things
both from myself and octavien could have been worded much better, however,
on the whole, complaining for complainign sake, be it about skype or the
underlying OS or the trials and tribulations in the operation thereof.
On 10/08/2018 08:35, Doug Lee wrote:
I honestly don't see, in Octavian's post, anything I could reasonably
describe as:
- "Disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference." The
"JAWS, not NVDA" remark read, to me, as simply a statement of
practicality. Rewritten, I would put it, "I would likely get used to it
if it were quicker to
use with JAWS. (I'm not an NVDA user, so the NVDA efficiency in this
app won't affect me much.)"
- "Disparaging remarks and commentary." The above remark is the only one
that I could make seem so, and only after your response made me look
twice.
- "Shooting down someone else's viewpoint." Frankly I would say you're
doing more "shooting" than anyone at the moment. I can read, "utterly,
incontrovertibly wrong," thus. :-)
You refer to a Blinux community history that is 15 years old. Many on
this list were probably not around for that, due to age or happenstance;
my case surely being the latter. :-) That history probably gives you a
view of the
poster you're aiming at here, but that view is not shared, at least by
the same cause, by many others here unless I miss my mark.
The advice for users to know their screen readers is of course wise.
Personal preferences aside, I prove that Skype 8 is usable by the fact
that I've used nothing else for months. I do disable the virtual cursor
in
JAWS, Browse mode in NVDA, most of the time though; so I question the
view that web navigation is the best approach for Skype 8 and other
similar Electron apps. But it is *a* means of managing much of the app,
for those who
wish to do it that way.
Finally, I humbly suggest that the best response to the widely varying
degree of screen reader familiarity out there is education more than
vituperation. You are right that some resist change, new learning, etc. -
in all
communities and not just ours - but that is, really, a subject outside
the scope of a Skype-specific mailing list.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:08:21AM +0930, Shaun Oliver wrote:
wrong.
utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.
Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect
towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit
died
years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent
among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to
change.
and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was
and
is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my
original point.
in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web
page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just
about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8,
included.
Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary
because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and
set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might
be
to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or
preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of
two
people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable
to
what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect
and
is utterly gauche, in my book.
Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit
here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any
favors.
On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can
be
partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to
do
a certain thing.
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means
that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time
and
brain.
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think
I
might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.
The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all.
:)
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]Sarah k Alawami
To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream
how
to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if
you
use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around
the interface lightning fast. They work well.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no
offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10
is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put
their
foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are
used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are
the
same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with
some
applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it
with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and
I
want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered
to
the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with
the
style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad,
I
refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use
numpad
at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this
might
not be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't
just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't
make
it better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think
how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need
to
stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be
able
to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to
start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11
to
open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just
muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very
fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without
thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of
working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want
as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [3]Sarah k Alawami
To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don't believe me go to my youtube page. I can
get around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that
Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7
doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for
the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new
helpful
things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used
for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype
users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use
Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the
one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more
friendly
with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when
it
is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most
used
combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what
I
read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so
this
is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [5]Sarah k Alawami
To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give
it
a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their
act together.
From: [7]skypeenglish@groups.io [[8]mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: [9]skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
This is really good news.
It sounds like they've gotten some seriously negative feedback on the
new version.
I've even heard from people with sight that don't like it.
Long Live Skype Classic.
From: [10]John Holcomb II
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
To: [11]skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com
[12]https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16
5295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day
[13][LINK]
Virus-free. [14]www.avast.com
<
References
1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:marrie12@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:marrie12@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
10. mailto:@JHRadio
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
12.
https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day
13.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
14.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
15. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/2953
16.
mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
17.
mailto:blindman75@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
18. https://groups.io/mt/24211481/409874
19. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
20. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
21. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
22. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
23. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Well, I had the patience for learning and for
practicing programming. I do programming for more than 20 years and I have
worked as a programmer as a blind for more than 15 years. But exactly this is
the reason why I don't have the time to lose re-learning new things that don't
help me to do new things, but just to be able to continue to do the same old
things, maybe a little worse.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:32
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
oh, I don't know all I'd like to, granted, but I know enough to get by, I'm
no software developer by any means, and I find I'm too old to take such a
project on, lol. not that 43 is overly old, but I haven't the head for
programming nor do I have the patients for it.
On 10/08/2018 08:54, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun:
You know more about the high tech side of things.
All I know is, making the change was not the disaster I expected, or
was lead to believe.
So, I’m not really concerned either way.
A little help along the way, and not much of that, was really
great.
But, I am planning for an upgrade in the near future.
Furthermore, I’ve gotten lost of help as it is just reading the
threads.
So, Thank you all.
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
that's not really a fair comparison, as there were drastic changes
between all of those, but win7, win8 win8.1 and win10, the core comands
haven't changed much at all. interface wise, there's some changes, but, they
are not insurmountable.
On 10/08/2018 08:30, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP
to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the
commands on each OS.
On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde
wrote:
Shaun and John.
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be
difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it
doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll
figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy. I expect the same when
the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to
upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time. You’re both right.
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic
Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use
it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I
respect.
you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being
contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo.
again, that, I respect.
On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II
wrote:
I’ve never had anyone who I upgraded to
Windows 10 have any issues.
And while I don’t use W10 as my primary
driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact,
narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is
going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first
party hardware.
Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting
out scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.
And if something for some reason didn’t work,
he’d be the first person to tell us here.
Now I’ve e not upgraded my Skype
because I choose not to. Not because I think it won’t work.
There’s a difference.
Just like I choose to stay on Windows
7. For my main driver.
But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in
front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I
could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and
know how to use the curcers to get around screen if nothing
else.
But all and all, I trust Doug who made
the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a halfassed
unworkable product.
John
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear
contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have
been warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called
Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience
navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without
issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web
interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for
the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively
here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is,
under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of
the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must
offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with
supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any
other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an
update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add,
MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to feedback about
accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's
broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak,
because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence,
you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other
one a go.
On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it
in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every
day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get
around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"just takes geting used
to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it
doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than
Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort
and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require
this.
It is good to consume time to learn
something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only
missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do
with it.
It would be great for example if it will
have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from
programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the
version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and
they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not
helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if
the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8,
or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse
accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS,
and I guess that this is the most used
combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with
Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10
users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage
some things until the next update, so this is also not very
useful.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday,
August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my
jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes
geting used to, so give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use
with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of
impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie
wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told
them to get their act together.
This is really good news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously
negative feedback on the new version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t
like it.
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018
2:00 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish]
Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day
- Thurrott.com
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