Date   
locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

what's hard to use about windows10? how is the command structure different at its core than that of windows7?

really people, you're going to be forced in to using win10 in two or three years anyway, so you might as well bite the damned bullet and get with the program. again, I'm not appologizing for being harsh, but seriously people, pissing and moaning about how much worse things are, is doing nothing more than showing your inability to adapt. and that, my friends, does you a great disservice.


in a couple of years when you're forced to update to win10, are you goign to give up computing altogether? no, you're not. so instead of being dragged kicking and screaming, whaling, nashing your teeth, crying and wetting your diapers out of protest, take some initiative, and make the transition now, so that when you have no choice down the track, you can at least say you're ahead of the game and you are competent with using windows10. I've said very little on this list and mostly just read the goings on, but, for the last three weeks, I have seen nothing but bitching, moaning, crying, diaper wetting, about how the world's ending because skype is inaccessible. inaccessible to me means firstly the screenreader won't render it at all. nor, can it be used, even if you implement OCR as provided with NVDA and I believe JAWS has it also, if I cannot at least use the mouse to get around something and work it, it is all but inaccessible to me.


and I'm attempting to play world of warcraft. so go figure. that is all but inaccessible but it is doable.


again, people, stop the belly aching and make a concerted effort to better yourselves and your computing skills and keep them up to date, or you will become obsolete. that, is not good for you or your potential employability.

think on that, please?



On 10/08/2018 03:55, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.


On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
 
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)
 
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
 
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
 
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not be important at all.
 
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
 
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it better for me.
 
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our different needs and preferences.
 
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".
 
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.
 
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
 
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.
 
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment


On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


<


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

wrong.


utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.


Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to change.


and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my original point.

in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.


Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of two people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable to what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect and is utterly gauche, in my book.

Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.



On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can be partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do a certain thing.
 
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and brain.
 
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.
 
The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all. :)
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the interface lightning fast. They work well.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.


On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
 
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)
 
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
 
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
 
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not be important at all.
 
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
 
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it better for me.
 
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our different needs and preferences.
 
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".
 
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.
 
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
 
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.
 
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment


On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


<


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.


you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.



On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

 


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Andre Polykanine
 

Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.

--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Skype: menelion_elensule
Twitter (English only): @AndrePolykanine

------------ Original message ------------
From: Shaun Oliver <blindman75@...>
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Date created: , 1:06:43 AM
Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.




Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.




Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!




Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.




Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.





On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:


Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page.I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:




"just takes geting used to".
 
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.
 
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
 
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.
 
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.
 
--Octavian


----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com




Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:




new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment



On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:





Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 



From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 




This is really good news.


It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.


I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.


Long Live Skype Classic.


 


 




 



From: John Holcomb II


Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM


To: skypeenglish@groups.io


Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


 


https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day


 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

<

locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Jerry Pryde
 

Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Josephine Hirsch
 

I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS.


On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 



locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Josephine Hirsch
 

When I was going to school, I never heard of screenreaders nor screen magnifiers


On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 



locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

John Holcomb II
 

Windows 10 will be just fine. I’ve used it enough to tell you  this. Skype also will be just fine.

And if something is missing, MS will fix it.

I think they  have proven themselves when it comes to accessibility.

Ok so it may not  work exactly the same way as classic skype, but that doesn’t for a minute mean it won’t work at all.

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Josephine Hirsch
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:00 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS.

 

On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:

Shaun and John.

 

Absolutely correct.

Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.

Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.

Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.

Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.

Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.

Difficult, but not impossible.

I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.

 

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 

 

 

locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Doug Lee
 

I honestly don't see, in Octavian's post, anything I could reasonably describe as:

- "Disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference." The "JAWS, not NVDA" remark read, to me, as simply a statement of practicality. Rewritten, I would put it, "I would likely get used to it if it were quicker to
use with JAWS. (I'm not an NVDA user, so the NVDA efficiency in this app won't affect me much.)"

- "Disparaging remarks and commentary." The above remark is the only one that I could make seem so, and only after your response made me look twice.

- "Shooting down someone else's viewpoint." Frankly I would say you're doing more "shooting" than anyone at the moment. I can read, "utterly, incontrovertibly wrong," thus. :-)

You refer to a Blinux community history that is 15 years old. Many on this list were probably not around for that, due to age or happenstance; my case surely being the latter. :-) That history probably gives you a view of the
poster you're aiming at here, but that view is not shared, at least by the same cause, by many others here unless I miss my mark.

The advice for users to know their screen readers is of course wise. Personal preferences aside, I prove that Skype 8 is usable by the fact that I've used nothing else for months. I do disable the virtual cursor in
JAWS, Browse mode in NVDA, most of the time though; so I question the view that web navigation is the best approach for Skype 8 and other similar Electron apps. But it is *a* means of managing much of the app, for those who
wish to do it that way.

Finally, I humbly suggest that the best response to the widely varying degree of screen reader familiarity out there is education more than vituperation. You are right that some resist change, new learning, etc. - in all
communities and not just ours - but that is, really, a subject outside the scope of a Skype-specific mailing list.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:08:21AM +0930, Shaun Oliver wrote:
wrong.

utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.

Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect
towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died
years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent
among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to
change.

and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and
is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my
original point.

in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web
page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just
about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.

Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary
because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and
set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be
to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or
preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of two
people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable to
what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect and
is utterly gauche, in my book.

Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit
here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.

On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can be
partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do
a certain thing.



If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means
that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and
brain.



I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.

If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I
might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.



The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all.
:)



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how
to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you
use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around
the interface lightning fast. They work well.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no
offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10
is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their
foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are
used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".

Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the
same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)

I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some
applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it
with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.

You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I
want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to
the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the
style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.

Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I
refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad
at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might
not be important at all.

However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't
just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.

This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make
it better for me.

Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.

For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think
how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to
stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able
to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to
start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to
open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just
muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very
fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without
thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of
working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want
as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Sarah k Alawami

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don't believe me go to my youtube page. I can
get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that
Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7
doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for
the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful
things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used
for sending chat messages from programs.

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype
users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use
Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the
one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly
with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it
is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used
combination.

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I
read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this
is also not very useful.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Sarah k Alawami

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it
a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their
act together.


From: [7]skypeenglish@groups.io [[8]mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: [9]skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


This is really good news.

It sounds like they've gotten some seriously negative feedback on the
new version.

I've even heard from people with sight that don't like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.




From: [10]John Holcomb II

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

To: [11]skypeenglish@groups.io

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com


[12]https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16
5295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day


[13][LINK]

Virus-free. [14]www.avast.com

<



References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:marrie12@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:marrie12@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
10. mailto:@JHRadio
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
12. https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day
13. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
14. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
15. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/2953
16. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
17. mailto:blindman75@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
18. https://groups.io/mt/24211481/409874
19. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
20. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
21. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
22. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
23. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them
to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum

locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

separate chat windows? really that wastes more resources.

on windows, press alt+1 and you're in the conversation list, and by default, it's set to organise by time, so you can easily find the conversation you need to interact with.

as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need them. incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them easily enough.

customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.


it really is of no consequense and while both sighted and blidn people are complaining bitterly about it, I've yet to find a drawback with this latest interface.

On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.

locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

just as an aside, narrator has undergone a drastic change and as of the next major update to win10, which is due this fall, narrator could be compared to the major screenreaders as ms have finally done what mac have been doing for years with voiceover.



On 10/08/2018 08:22, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 



locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Pete
 

Hello Andre,

I agree with you completely, I used Skype 8 for about 10 days in the belief that at the end of this month I would have no alternative, and as a member of a tech support team I assisted several people on to version 8 during that period, but when I found out a few days ago that Microsoft were backtracking I reverted to 7 for the reasons stated below, a global hotkey for answering calls, customizable sound options and the ability to use separate windows for conversations.

The Skype team have obviously received a degree of feedback that has forced them to put their future plans for Skype on hold, and I have a feeling that at least some of the missing features could well be put back, anyway I'm very happy with 7 and will await future developments with interest.

Pete H.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Polykanine
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 11:49 PM
To: Shaun Oliver
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.

--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Skype: menelion_elensule
Twitter (English only): @AndrePolykanine


------------ Original message ------------
From: Shaun Oliver <blindman75@...>
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Date created: , 1:06:43 AM
Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.




Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.




Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!




Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.




Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.





On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:


Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page.I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:




"just takes geting used to".

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

--Octavian


----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com




Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:




new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment



On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:





Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.





From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com






This is really good news.


It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.


I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.


Long Live Skype Classic.














From: John Holcomb II


Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM


To: skypeenglish@groups.io


Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com





https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day





Virus-free. www.avast.com

<

locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

that's not really a fair comparison, as there were drastic changes between all of those, but win7, win8 win8.1 and win10, the core comands haven't changed much at all. interface wise, there's some changes, but, they are not insurmountable.



On 10/08/2018 08:30, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS.


On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 




locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Josephine Hirsch
 

except I did not know very much about Windows 8.1 nor 8.2 nor Windows tablets nor Windows mobilet

On 8/9/2018 6:15 PM, Shaun Oliver wrote:

that's not really a fair comparison, as there were drastic changes between all of those, but win7, win8 win8.1 and win10, the core comands haven't changed much at all. interface wise, there's some changes, but, they are not insurmountable.



On 10/08/2018 08:30, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS.


On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 





Re: Skype sounds on an iPhone

John Holcomb II
 

Some people have hearing impairments, like me. Being able to change the sound to something that wil more easily be heard would be a nice option. Take Skype for iPhone. What if the person has a low/mid frequency loss and needs something very high pitched in order to hear the ring?
Not all people with hard of hearing issues have braille displays.

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:08 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.
On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I
know someone wants my attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.

locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

maybe, but discounting one thing over another, is wrong in my book, I don't discount jaws, even though as a personal preference, I refuse to use it. that does not mean to say I am any less competent for using jaws as opposed to NVDA or whatever else might be out there.

at their core, their basic functionality is the same. and in reality, NVDA gives you a better overview from a sighted person's perspective as to what's on the screen and, from a developer stand point as to the structure and window layout of an application.


JAWS has only recently begun to do this, where as NVDA have been doing it for years. as has voiceover on the mac.


Yes it comes down to personal preference, and yes, quite a lot of things both from myself and octavien could have been worded much better, however, on the whole, complaining for complainign sake, be it about skype or the underlying OS or the trials and tribulations in the operation thereof.

On 10/08/2018 08:35, Doug Lee wrote:
I honestly don't see, in Octavian's post, anything I could reasonably describe as:

- "Disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference." The "JAWS, not NVDA" remark read, to me, as simply a statement of practicality. Rewritten, I would put it, "I would likely get used to it if it were quicker to
use with JAWS. (I'm not an NVDA user, so the NVDA efficiency in this app won't affect me much.)"

- "Disparaging remarks and commentary." The above remark is the only one that I could make seem so, and only after your response made me look twice.

- "Shooting down someone else's viewpoint." Frankly I would say you're doing more "shooting" than anyone at the moment. I can read, "utterly, incontrovertibly wrong," thus. :-)

You refer to a Blinux community history that is 15 years old. Many on this list were probably not around for that, due to age or happenstance; my case surely being the latter. :-) That history probably gives you a view of the
poster you're aiming at here, but that view is not shared, at least by the same cause, by many others here unless I miss my mark.

The advice for users to know their screen readers is of course wise. Personal preferences aside, I prove that Skype 8 is usable by the fact that I've used nothing else for months. I do disable the virtual cursor in
JAWS, Browse mode in NVDA, most of the time though; so I question the view that web navigation is the best approach for Skype 8 and other similar Electron apps. But it is *a* means of managing much of the app, for those who
wish to do it that way.

Finally, I humbly suggest that the best response to the widely varying degree of screen reader familiarity out there is education more than vituperation. You are right that some resist change, new learning, etc. - in all
communities and not just ours - but that is, really, a subject outside the scope of a Skype-specific mailing list.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:08:21AM +0930, Shaun Oliver wrote:
wrong.

utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.

Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect
towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died
years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent
among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to
change.

and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and
is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my
original point.

in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web
page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just
about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.

Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary
because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and
set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be
to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or
preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of two
people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable to
what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect and
is utterly gauche, in my book.

Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit
here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.

On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can be
partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do
a certain thing.



If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means
that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and
brain.



I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.

If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I
might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.



The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all.
:)



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how
to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you
use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around
the interface lightning fast. They work well.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no
offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10
is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their
foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are
used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".

Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the
same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)

I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some
applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it
with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.

You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I
want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to
the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the
style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.

Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I
refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad
at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might
not be important at all.

However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't
just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.

This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make
it better for me.

Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.

For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think
how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to
stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able
to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to
start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to
open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just
muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very
fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without
thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of
working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want
as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Sarah k Alawami

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don't believe me go to my youtube page. I can
get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that
Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7
doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for
the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful
things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used
for sending chat messages from programs.

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype
users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use
Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the
one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly
with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it
is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used
combination.

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I
read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this
is also not very useful.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Sarah k Alawami

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it
a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their
act together.


From: [7]skypeenglish@groups.io [[8]mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: [9]skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


This is really good news.

It sounds like they've gotten some seriously negative feedback on the
new version.

I've even heard from people with sight that don't like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.




From: [10]John Holcomb II

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

To: [11]skypeenglish@groups.io

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com


[12]https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16
5295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day


[13][LINK]

Virus-free. [14]www.avast.com

<


References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:marrie12@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:marrie12@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
10. mailto:@JHRadio
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
12. https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day
13. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
14. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
15. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/2953
16. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
17. mailto:blindman75@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
18. https://groups.io/mt/24211481/409874
19. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
20. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
21. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
22. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
23. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Jerry Pryde
 

Shaun:
You know more about the high tech side of things.
All I know is, making the change was not the disaster I expected, or was lead to believe.
So, I’m not really concerned either way.
A little help along the way, and not much of that, was really great.
But, I am planning for an upgrade in the near future.
Furthermore, I’ve gotten lost of help as it is just reading the threads.
So, Thank you all.
 

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

that's not really a fair comparison, as there were drastic changes between all of those, but win7, win8 win8.1 and win10, the core comands haven't changed much at all. interface wise, there's some changes, but, they are not insurmountable.

 


On 10/08/2018 08:30, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS.


On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 




locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

there was never a win8.2

after win8.1, came windows10


On 10/08/2018 08:47, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
except I did not know very much about Windows 8.1 nor 8.2 nor Windows tablets nor Windows mobilet
On 8/9/2018 6:15 PM, Shaun Oliver wrote:

that's not really a fair comparison, as there were drastic changes between all of those, but win7, win8 win8.1 and win10, the core comands haven't changed much at all. interface wise, there's some changes, but, they are not insurmountable.



On 10/08/2018 08:30, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS.


On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 






Re: Skype sounds on an iPhone

Shaun Oliver
 

I suffer a bit of industrial deafness myself, due to working in a band and years of radio work, both terestrial and internet.


while customising the sounds would be nice, it's not a show stopper for me.

On 10/08/2018 08:48, John Holcomb II wrote:
Some people have hearing impairments, like me. Being able to change the sound to something that wil more easily be heard would be a nice option. Take Skype for iPhone. What if the person has a low/mid frequency loss and needs something very high pitched in order to hear the ring?
Not all people with hard of hearing issues have braille displays.


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:08 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.
On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I
know someone wants my attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.

locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

oh, I don't know all I'd like to, granted, but I know enough to get by, I'm no software developer by any means, and I find I'm too old to take such a project on, lol. not that 43 is overly old, but I haven't the head for programming nor do I have the patients for it.



On 10/08/2018 08:54, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun:
You know more about the high tech side of things.
All I know is, making the change was not the disaster I expected, or was lead to believe.
So, I’m not really concerned either way.
A little help along the way, and not much of that, was really great.
But, I am planning for an upgrade in the near future.
Furthermore, I’ve gotten lost of help as it is just reading the threads.
So, Thank you all.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

that's not really a fair comparison, as there were drastic changes between all of those, but win7, win8 win8.1 and win10, the core comands haven't changed much at all. interface wise, there's some changes, but, they are not insurmountable.

 


On 10/08/2018 08:30, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS.


On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<