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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Windows 10 will be just fine. I’ve used it enough to tell you this. Skype also will be just fine. And if something is missing, MS will fix it. I think they have proven themselves when it comes to accessibility. Ok so it may not work exactly the same way as classic skype, but that doesn’t for a minute mean it won’t work at all.
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Josephine Hirsch
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:00 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS. On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote: Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm. Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t. Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10. Making the change from XP was Easy. I expect the same when the time comes for w-10. Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software. Difficult, but not impossible. I’ll catch up in due time. You’re both right. Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect. you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect. On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote: I’ve never had anyone who I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues. And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware. Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them. And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here. Now I’ve e not upgraded my Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think it won’t work. There’s a difference. Just like I choose to stay on Windows 7. For my main driver. But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to get around screen if nothing else. But all and all, I trust Doug who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a halfassed unworkable product. John I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned. Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual. Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit! Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX. Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go. On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote: Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda. On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote: "just takes geting used to". Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :) Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this. It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it. It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs. I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related. The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination. I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance. On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote: new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote: Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together. This is really good news. It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version. I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it. Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
<
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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
When I was going to school, I never heard of screenreaders nor
screen magnifiers
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be
difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it
doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m
sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or
without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy. I expect the same
when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it
comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time. You’re both right.
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you
know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and
that is your choice, which I respect.
you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are
you being contrary and fighting change just because you
prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.
On 10/08/2018 07:47, John
Holcomb II wrote:
I’ve never had anyone who I
upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.
And while I don’t use W10 as
my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to
work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some
people need. And if any screene reader is going to
work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be
first party hardware.
Also I think Doug wouldn’t be
putting out scripts and NVDA addons if skype did
not work with them.
And if something for some
reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell
us here.
Now I’ve e not upgraded my
Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think
it won’t work. There’s a difference.
Just like I choose to stay
on Windows 7. For my main driver.
But if someone slapped Skype
8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts,
you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work.
I’ve been using computers and screne readers and
know how to use the curcers to get around screen if
nothing else.
But all and all, I trust
Doug who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out
a halfassed unworkable product.
John
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to
not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make
no appology for it. you have been warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is
still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate.
if you have experience navigating a web style
interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If
you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a
web interface or similar, then you have nobody to
blame but yourself for the issues you're facing
navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I
am not pointing the finger at any one individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different under
windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10
being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful
vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue
and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed
oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay.
Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other
platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when
there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS
and android and I might add, MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to feedback
about accessibility these days, but, they listen to
feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly
short order. So have a care how you speak, because
unless your oppinions are based on actual provable
evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and
need to give the other one a go.
On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k
Alawami wrote:
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as
good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of
just tinkering around. I use it every day on
my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go
to my youtube
page. I can get around it
farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"just
takes geting used to".
Yes, but this,
and the fact that it doesn't have some
features that Skype 7 has, makes it
worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to
something means effort and time
consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require
this.
It is good to
consume time to learn something new that
helps, but for the moment I've seen only
missing features in Skype 8, not new
helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great
for example if it will have an API that
can be used for sending chat messages
from programs.
I see you compare
Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but
most Skype users use it under Windows
and they will probably never intend to
use Mac, so for them is not helpful at
all if Skype 8 is similar with the one
for Mac, or if the Mac style of using
the computer is more friendly with Skype
8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that
Skype 8 is much worse accessible than
Skype 7 when it is used under Windows
with JAWS, and I guess that this is the
most used combination.
I don't know how
easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet,
but from what I read from other blind
Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not
stable yet, and some updates can damage
some things until the next update, so
this is also not very useful.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day
for my streams and my jobs. It is
100 percent accessible and usable
and just takes geting used to, so
give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34,
Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really
sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you
have any type of impairment
On
8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie
wrote:
Yeah I definitely put
my feedback in there and
told them to get their act
together.
This is really
good news.
It sounds like
they’ve gotten some
seriously negative
feedback on the new
version.
I’ve even heard
from people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent:
Monday, August
06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish]
Microsoft
Backtracks,
Classic Skype
Lives to See
Another Day -
Thurrott.com
<
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|
|
locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000
to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to
figure the commands on each OS.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be
difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it
doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m
sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or
without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy. I expect the same
when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it
comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time. You’re both right.
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you
know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and
that is your choice, which I respect.
you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are
you being contrary and fighting change just because you
prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.
On 10/08/2018 07:47, John
Holcomb II wrote:
I’ve never had anyone who I
upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.
And while I don’t use W10 as
my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to
work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some
people need. And if any screene reader is going to
work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be
first party hardware.
Also I think Doug wouldn’t be
putting out scripts and NVDA addons if skype did
not work with them.
And if something for some
reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell
us here.
Now I’ve e not upgraded my
Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think
it won’t work. There’s a difference.
Just like I choose to stay
on Windows 7. For my main driver.
But if someone slapped Skype
8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts,
you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work.
I’ve been using computers and screne readers and
know how to use the curcers to get around screen if
nothing else.
But all and all, I trust
Doug who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out
a halfassed unworkable product.
John
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to
not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make
no appology for it. you have been warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is
still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate.
if you have experience navigating a web style
interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If
you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a
web interface or similar, then you have nobody to
blame but yourself for the issues you're facing
navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I
am not pointing the finger at any one individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different under
windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10
being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful
vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue
and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed
oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay.
Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other
platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when
there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS
and android and I might add, MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to feedback
about accessibility these days, but, they listen to
feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly
short order. So have a care how you speak, because
unless your oppinions are based on actual provable
evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and
need to give the other one a go.
On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k
Alawami wrote:
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as
good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of
just tinkering around. I use it every day on
my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go
to my youtube
page. I can get around it
farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"just
takes geting used to".
Yes, but this,
and the fact that it doesn't have some
features that Skype 7 has, makes it
worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to
something means effort and time
consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require
this.
It is good to
consume time to learn something new that
helps, but for the moment I've seen only
missing features in Skype 8, not new
helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great
for example if it will have an API that
can be used for sending chat messages
from programs.
I see you compare
Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but
most Skype users use it under Windows
and they will probably never intend to
use Mac, so for them is not helpful at
all if Skype 8 is similar with the one
for Mac, or if the Mac style of using
the computer is more friendly with Skype
8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that
Skype 8 is much worse accessible than
Skype 7 when it is used under Windows
with JAWS, and I guess that this is the
most used combination.
I don't know how
easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet,
but from what I read from other blind
Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not
stable yet, and some updates can damage
some things until the next update, so
this is also not very useful.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day
for my streams and my jobs. It is
100 percent accessible and usable
and just takes geting used to, so
give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34,
Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really
sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you
have any type of impairment
On
8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie
wrote:
Yeah I definitely put
my feedback in there and
told them to get their act
together.
This is really
good news.
It sounds like
they’ve gotten some
seriously negative
feedback on the new
version.
I’ve even heard
from people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent:
Monday, August
06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish]
Microsoft
Backtracks,
Classic Skype
Lives to See
Another Day -
Thurrott.com
<
|
|
|
locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Shaun and John.
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two
Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure
things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy. I expect the same when the time
comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades
with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time. You’re both right.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but
by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.
you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary
and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I
respect.
On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:
I’ve never had anyone
who I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.
And while I don’t use W10
as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In
fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is
going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party
hardware.
Also I think Doug wouldn’t
be putting out scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.
And if something for some
reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us
here.
Now I’ve e not upgraded
my Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think it won’t
work. There’s a difference.
Just like I choose to
stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.
But if someone slapped
Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice,
I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers
and know how to use the curcers to get around screen if nothing else.
But all and all, I trust
Doug who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a
halfassed unworkable product.
John
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear
contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been
warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype
preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web
style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at
least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have
nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8.
I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one
individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under
windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful
vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer
an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and
hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes,
things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true
of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility
these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in
fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your
oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the
wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.
On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
Actualy skype 8 for windows
is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering
around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go
to my youtube page. I can get around it
farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27,
Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just
takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and
the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it
worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to
something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require
this.
It is good to
consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've
seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can
do with it.
It would be great
for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat
messages from programs.
I see you compare
Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under
Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not
helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac
style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac
related.
The truth is that
Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under
Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used
combination.
I don't know how
easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other
blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can
damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very
useful.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not
true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent
accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a
chance.
On 6
Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new
version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders
regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018
10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I
definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act
together.
This is
really good news.
It
sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the
new version.
I’ve even
heard from people with sight that don’t like
it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
<
|
|
|
locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.
--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Skype: menelion_elensule
Twitter (English only): @AndrePolykanine
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
------------ Original message ------------ From: Shaun Oliver <blindman75@gmail.com> To: skypeenglish@groups.io Date created: , 1:06:43 AM Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned. Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual. Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit! Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX. Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go. On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote: Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page.I can get around it farily quickly with nvda. On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote: "just takes geting used to". Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :) Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this. It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it. It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs. I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related. The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination. I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful. --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah k Alawami To: skypeenglish@groups.io Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance. On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote: new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote: Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together. From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m. To: skypeenglish@groups.io Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com This is really good news. It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version. I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it. Long Live Skype Classic. From: John Holcomb II Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM To: skypeenglish@groups.io Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day Virus-free. www.avast.com <
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to
use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice,
which I respect.
you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you
being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the
status quo. again, that, I respect.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II
wrote:
I’ve never
had anyone who I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.
And while I
don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to
windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all
some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work
great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party
hardware.
Also I think
Doug wouldn’t be putting out scripts and NVDA addons if
skype did not work with them.
And if
something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first
person to tell us here.
Now I’ve e
not upgraded my Skype because I choose not to. Not because
I think it won’t work. There’s a difference.
Just like I
choose to stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.
But if
someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said
here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make
it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and
know how to use the curcers to get around screen if nothing
else.
But all and
all, I trust Doug who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put
out a halfassed unworkable product.
John
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only
appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for
it. you have been warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still
called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have
experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate
skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency
in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody
to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating
Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the
finger at any one individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as
it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable,
Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if
you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not
filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite
stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break.
sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is
true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to feedback about
accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about
what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care
how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on
actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong
orifice and need to give the other one a go.
On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
Actualy
skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in
about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use
it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t
believe me go to my
youtube page. I can get around it
farily quickly with nvda.
On
7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just
takes geting used to".
Yes,
but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some
features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than
Skype 7. :)
Getting
used to something means effort and time
consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It
is good to consume time to learn something new
that helps, but for the moment I've seen only
missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful
things that we can do with it.
It
would be great for example if it will have an
API that can be used for sending chat messages
from programs.
I
see you compare Skype 8 with the version for
Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows
and they will probably never intend to use Mac,
so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is
similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac
style of using the computer is more friendly
with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The
truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible
than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with
JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used
combination.
I
don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10
yet, but from what I read from other blind
Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until
the next update, so this is also not very
useful.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
Not
true. I use it every day for my streams and
my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and
usable and just takes geting used to, so
give it a chance.
On
6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
new
version of Skype really sucks, and is
hard to use with screenreaders
regardless if you have any type of
impairment
On
8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah
I definitely put my feedback in
there and told them to get their act
together.
This
is really good news.
It
sounds like they’ve gotten
some seriously negative
feedback on the new version.
I’ve
even heard from people with
sight that don’t like it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic
Skype Lives to See
Another Day -
Thurrott.com
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
wrong.
utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.
Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing
disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference.
that bullshit died years ago quite frankly you were a voice of
discord and discontent among the blinux community about 15 years
ago and you have yet to change.
and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it
was and is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now,
back to my original point.
in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a
web page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can
just about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8,
included.
Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and
commentary because that does nobody any good other than to brass
people off and set them against you, even if you are attempting to
argue what might be to you, a valid point. shooting down someone
else's view point, or preference for screenreader, moreover,
shooting down the efforts of two people whose motis operandi is,
was, to provide a product comparable to what used to be known as
the big three, is the hight of disrespect and is utterly gauche,
in my book.
Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't
sit here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any
favors.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of
different versions of a program can be partially measured by
the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do a certain
thing.
If the number of
keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means that the
new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and
brain.
I don't know what's the situation
of Skype 8 from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys
*with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I might got used to
it and consider it better after a time of using it.
The ideal application is the one
that doesn't need to be used at all. :)
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09,
2018 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a
youtube stream how to use it in a matter of minutes.. It
is jut like a web page and if you use your quick nav keys
un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the
interface lightning fast. They work well.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it
because it took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7
because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10
is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is
way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone
have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't
DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM,
Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I
learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just
tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not
all the people are the same and not all of them use
the computer for the same things. :-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it
and consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad
accessible with some applications like TextPad, or
MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the
same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that
probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like
the object navigation. I was sighted and I want to
have an experience as close as possible with the one
offered to the sighted that can have a visual
perspective of the entire screen without analysing
each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with
the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years
ago, however for the single reason that it enforced
the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused to
use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use
numpad at all for other things just typing digits.
For other people this might not be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability
improvements, so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage
yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me.
It may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or
maybe even better, but this doesn't make it better
for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction,
but are based on our different needs and
preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than
for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't
even need to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on
Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the
steps one by one, and I may not be able to tell you
all the steps without doing it. But when I really
want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I
need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in
System tray, and from that point on is just muscle
memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do
it very fast, without needing to hear too much from
the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory
needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to
every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't
change my way of working and re-learning all the
hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as
before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day
- Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as
good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of
just tinkering around. I use it every day on
my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go
to my youtube page.
I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it
doesn't have some features that Skype 7
has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort
and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't
require this.
It is good to consume time to learn
something new that helps, but for the
moment I've seen only missing features in
Skype 8, not new helpful things that we
can do with it.
It would be great for example if it
will have an API that can be used for
sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the
version for Mac, but most Skype users use
it under Windows and they will probably
never intend to use Mac, so for them is
not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar
with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style
of using the computer is more friendly
with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse
accessible than Skype 7 when it is used
under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that
this is the most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with
Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from
other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10
is not stable yet, and some updates can
damage some things until the next update,
so this is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018
8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my
streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and
just takes geting used to, so give
it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine
Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really
sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you
have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie
wrote:
Yeah I definitely put
my feedback in there and
told them to get their act
together.
This
is really good news.
It
sounds like they’ve
gotten some
seriously negative
feedback on the new
version.
I’ve
even heard from
people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent:
Monday, August
06, 2018 2:00
PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish]
Microsoft
Backtracks,
Classic Skype
Lives to See
Another Day -
Thurrott.com
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
what's hard to use about windows10? how is the command structure
different at its core than that of windows7?
really people, you're going to be forced in to using win10 in two
or three years anyway, so you might as well bite the damned bullet
and get with the program. again, I'm not appologizing for being
harsh, but seriously people, pissing and moaning about how much
worse things are, is doing nothing more than showing your
inability to adapt. and that, my friends, does you a great
disservice.
in a couple of years when you're forced to update to win10, are
you goign to give up computing altogether? no, you're not. so
instead of being dragged kicking and screaming, whaling, nashing
your teeth, crying and wetting your diapers out of protest, take
some initiative, and make the transition now, so that when you
have no choice down the track, you can at least say you're ahead
of the game and you are competent with using windows10. I've said
very little on this list and mostly just read the goings on, but,
for the last three weeks, I have seen nothing but bitching,
moaning, crying, diaper wetting, about how the world's ending
because skype is inaccessible. inaccessible to me means firstly
the screenreader won't render it at all. nor, can it be used, even
if you implement OCR as provided with NVDA and I believe JAWS has
it also, if I cannot at least use the mouse to get around
something and work it, it is all but inaccessible to me.
and I'm attempting to play world of warcraft. so go figure. that
is all but inaccessible but it is doable.
again, people, stop the belly aching and make a concerted effort
to better yourselves and your computing skills and keep them up to
date, or you will become obsolete. that, is not good for you or
your potential employability.
think on that, please?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 10/08/2018 03:55, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it
took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows
7 OS and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the
commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am
glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that
they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned
it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the
people are the same and not all of them use the computer for
the same things. :-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and
consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible
with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt
when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under
Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you
like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation.
I was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as
possible with the one offered to the sighted that can have a
visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each
object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA
Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago,
however for the single reason that it enforced the users to
use the horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough.
Because I don't like to use numpad at all for other things
just typing digits. For other people this might not be
important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so
there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be
as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better,
but this doesn't make it better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are
based on our different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for
sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need
to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype,
I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one,
and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing
it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I
know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps
in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory,
and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast,
without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast,
without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my
way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to
do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I
learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering
around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you
don’t believe me go to my
youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly
with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have
some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than
Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time
consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new
that helps, but for the moment I've seen only
missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things
that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an
API that can be used for sending chat messages from
programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for
Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and
they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for
them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar
with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using
the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or
anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse
accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under
Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most
used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows
10 yet, but from what I read from other blind
Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and
some updates can damage some things until the next
update, so this is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day
- Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams
and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and
usable and just takes geting used to, so give
it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is
hard to use with screenreaders regardless
if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my
feedback in there and told them to
get their act together.
This is
really good news.
It sounds
like they’ve gotten some
seriously negative feedback on
the new version.
I’ve even
heard from people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic
Skype Lives to See
Another Day -
Thurrott.com
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
I’ve never had anyone who I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues. And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware. Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them. And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here. Now I’ve e not upgraded my Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think it won’t work. There’s a difference. Just like I choose to stay on Windows 7. For my main driver. But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to get around screen if nothing else. But all and all, I trust Doug who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a halfassed unworkable product. John
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned. Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual. Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit! Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX. Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go. On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote: Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda. On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote: "just takes geting used to". Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :) Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this. It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it. It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs. I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related. The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination. I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance. On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote: new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote: Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together. This is really good news. It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version. I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it. Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only
appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it.
you have been warned.
Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called
Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience
navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without
issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a
web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but
yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am
talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one
individual.
Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it
is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my
use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!
Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you
must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled
with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is
with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when
there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android
and I might add, MacOSX.
Software developers now not only listen to feedback about
accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about
what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how
you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual
provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and
need to give the other one a go.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I
learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering
around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you
don’t believe me go to my youtube
page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just
takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that
it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes
it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means
effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require
this.
It is good to consume time to
learn something new that helps, but for the moment
I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new
helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if
it will have an API that can be used for sending chat
messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the
version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under
Windows and they will probably never intend to use
Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is
similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of
using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or
anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much
worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under
Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most
used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it
with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other
blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until the next
update, so this is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Tuesday,
August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and
my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable
and just takes geting used to, so give it a
chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is
hard to use with screenreaders regardless if
you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback
in there and told them to get their act
together.
This is really
good news.
It sounds like
they’ve gotten some seriously
negative feedback on the new
version.
I’ve even heard
from people with sight that don’t
like it.
Sent: Monday, August
06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish]
Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Hello Sarah, I clicked on your youtube link, but once I’m there, none of the links activate for me. Maybe I’m doing something simply wrong? (Smiles)
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 12:17 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda. On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote: "just takes geting used to". Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :) Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this. It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it. It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs. I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related. The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination. I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote: new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote: Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together. This is really good news. It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version. I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it. Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
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Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Sarah k Alawami
I agree to a point, however sometimes the number of keys can make thigns complex. Fr me I just use the nvda quick keys. I dunno if such ahting exists in jaws or not but yeah, works fine over here and when in doubt I just tab. But yeah give it a try. It’s cool.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 9 Aug 2018, at 12:58, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of different versions
of a program can be partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys
needed to do a certain thing.
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example
double, it means that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more
time and brain.
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from
this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA,
then yes, I think I might got used to it and consider it better after a time of
using it.
The ideal application is the one that doesn't need
to be used at all. :)
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how to
use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you use your
quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the interface
lightning fast. They work well.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense,
Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way
different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by
telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to
it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are
the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things.
:-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still
very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command
prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under
Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I
want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to
the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the
style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I
refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at
all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not
be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't
just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage
yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it
better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for
sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to
think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody
on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one,
and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when
I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press
Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on
is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it
very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking
to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not
so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the
hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5
minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic
Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily
quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features
that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and
Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but
for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new
helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be
used for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most
Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend
to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar
with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is
more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7
when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the
most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from
what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not
stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next
update, so this is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is
100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so
give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of
impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told
them to get their act together.
This is really good news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously
negative feedback on the new version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight that
don’t like it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
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Skype, stop showing the auto updater!
Is there a way using regedit to tell skype to never show the autoupdator again? It keeps coming up and telling me its ready to be installed with Skype8. I’m tired of getting rid of the box. there is no such thing in tools>options>advanced>check for updates, as there is not a check for updates feature anywhere that I could find. If there had been, I woulda turned off automatically updating. Now maybe one of you have a regedit command for windows, so I can turn it off via the registry? Thanks, John
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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
I think the easiness of usage of different versions
of a program can be partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys
needed to do a certain thing.
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example
double, it means that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more
time and brain.
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from
this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA,
then yes, I think I might got used to it and consider it better after a time of
using it.
The ideal application is the one that doesn't need
to be used at all. :)
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how to
use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you use your
quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the interface
lightning fast. They work well.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense,
Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way
different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by
telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to
it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are
the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things.
:-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still
very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command
prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under
Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I
want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to
the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the
style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I
refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at
all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not
be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't
just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage
yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it
better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for
sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to
think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody
on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one,
and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when
I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press
Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on
is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it
very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking
to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not
so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the
hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5
minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic
Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily
quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features
that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and
Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but
for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new
helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be
used for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most
Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend
to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar
with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is
more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7
when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the
most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from
what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not
stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next
update, so this is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is
100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so
give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of
impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told
them to get their act together.
This is really good news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously
negative feedback on the new version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight that
don’t like it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
<
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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Sarah k Alawami
Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the interface lightning fast. They work well.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took
me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS
and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for
Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone
have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7
because people are used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it
in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the
people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the
same things. :-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider
it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible
with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt
when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under
Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like
it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was
sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible
with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual
perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object
and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8
is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however
for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the
horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I
don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing
digits. For other people this might not be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there
aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as
good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but
this doesn't make it better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are
based on our different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for
sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to
think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll
need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I
may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But
when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that
I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System
tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't
remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing
to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle
memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to
every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my
way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do
what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned
it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I
use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t
believe me go to my youtube
page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have
some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than
Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time
consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new
that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing
features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we
can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an
API that can be used for sending chat messages from
programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac,
but most Skype users use it under Windows and they
will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is
not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one
for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is
more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible
than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS,
and I guess that this is the most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10
yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10
users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates
can damage some things until the next update, so this
is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and
my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable
and just takes geting used to, so give it a
chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is
hard to use with screenreaders regardless if
you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback
in there and told them to get their
act together.
This is really
good news.
It sounds like
they’ve gotten some seriously
negative feedback on the new
version.
I’ve even
heard from people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
<
|
|
|
locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
I upgraded from Windows 7 to 10 in 2016, people were spreading stories
around that 10 was vastly different, but once I got it I found that I didn’t
have to change anything, all the commands I used in 7 still work in 10.
Pete H.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: Josephine Hirsch
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 7:25 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2 hours
to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10
is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows
7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't
DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the
same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very
bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt
when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I want
to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to the sighted
that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each
object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is
OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused
to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at all for
other things just typing digits. For other people this might not be important
at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't just
disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage
yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it
better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For
me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think how to use
it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to
stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able to
tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to start
chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the
list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and
I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear
too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to type a
text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And
well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of working and
re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before
just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k
Alawami
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube
streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube
page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that
Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7
doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for
the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful
things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used
for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype
users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac,
so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for
Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype
8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when
it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used
combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what
I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is
also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic
Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it
a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of
impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to
get their act together.
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018
8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject:
Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
This is really good news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously
negative feedback on the new version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight that
don’t like it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
<
|
|
|
locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took
me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS
and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for
Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone
have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7
because people are used to it.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it
in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the
people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the
same things. :-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider
it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible
with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt
when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under
Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like
it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was
sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible
with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual
perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object
and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8
is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however
for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the
horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I
don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing
digits. For other people this might not be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there
aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as
good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but
this doesn't make it better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are
based on our different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for
sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to
think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll
need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I
may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But
when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that
I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System
tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't
remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing
to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle
memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to
every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my
way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do
what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned
it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I
use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t
believe me go to my youtube
page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have
some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than
Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time
consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new
that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing
features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we
can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an
API that can be used for sending chat messages from
programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac,
but most Skype users use it under Windows and they
will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is
not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one
for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is
more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible
than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS,
and I guess that this is the most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10
yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10
users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates
can damage some things until the next update, so this
is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and
my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable
and just takes geting used to, so give it a
chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch
wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is
hard to use with screenreaders regardless if
you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback
in there and told them to get their
act together.
This is really
good news.
It sounds like
they’ve gotten some seriously
negative feedback on the new
version.
I’ve even
heard from people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype
Lives to See Another Day -
Thurrott.com
<
|
|
|
locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I
learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all
the people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same
things. :-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and
consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it
is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS
command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under
Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that
probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I
was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one
offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of
NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years
ago, however for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the
horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to
use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this
might not be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements,
so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any
advantage yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It
may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this
doesn't make it better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction,
but are based on our different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for
you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to
think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on
Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may
not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want
to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open
the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory,
and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to
hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to
type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to
type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of
working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as
before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe
5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams.
If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily
quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used
to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some
features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time
consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that
helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not
new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API
that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac,
but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never
intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar
with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more
friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible
than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this
is the most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10
yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is
not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next
update, so this is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a
chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to
get their act together.
This is really good news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously
negative feedback on the new version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t
like it.
Sent: Monday,
August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com
<
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|
Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra
Sarah k Alawami
You can hit command shift r then swit h it to a video call later I
believe.
Take care
On 9 Aug 2018, at 0:10, Joseph Hudson wrote:
Hi Mac users, I've taken the plans, and reinstalled the latest version
of Skype on my MacBook Pro. I want to go call one of my friends on
Skype, and every time I hit the audio call or video call button, it
takes me right back into the chat window. What is going on. I even
tried to call Skype test call service and it doesn't even work. If
anybody wants to try it with me. Skype is the following.
joseph.hudson89
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locked
Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Sarah k Alawami
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used
to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some
features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed,
and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that
helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new
helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that
can be used for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but
most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use
Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for
Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or
anything Mac related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than
Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the
most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet,
but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable
yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is
also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent
accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders
regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and
told them to get their act together.
This is really good
news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some
seriously negative feedback on the new version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent:
Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com
<
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