|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Sarah k Alawami
Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.
Take care
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will
always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all
would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all
of us.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot
and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you
still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over
it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part
nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put
it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a
minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as
we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending
litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had,
it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the
other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up
and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients
thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and
disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating
them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly
about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with
your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Octavien, if you put as much
energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd
have nothing to complain about.".
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot
of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last
years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows
XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to
use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype
7 for me.
Don't think that all the people use the applications
the same way you use them.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever
was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you
do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a
lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just
me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
English is not my native language, so probably I
wasn't clear enough so you didn't understand too much, but I never said that I
know something or that I am the voice of who knows who.
I just presented my
opinions, and I don't care if I am the single person in the whole world that has
these opinions that Skype 8 is worse than Skype 7.
Because there are more
people that have an opinion it doesn't mean that the fewer people that have a
totally different one are not important at all.
And yes, I already said it
for a few times, the developers won't care too much about the blind because we
are too few, and yes, we should follow the masses and use what we can, but this
doesn't mean that we should also pretend that this is what we prefer, because
this would mean hypocrisy just for appearing good and nice to others,
falsely.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:06
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
and going through the proper channels and entering in to civil discourse
has worked so badly for the rest of us. I'm sorry, but this attitude that you
know everything and how you say it is is the right of it, bothers me
greatly.
you are only one voice of many, or to be a little more fair to you, I
suppose a few of many that are discontent with the changes. Granted, not
everyone is going to like them, but, a developer cannot keep a thing because a
hand full of end-users want it so.
This is the last I'm going to say on this, because I am just to the point
where typing responses and attempting to get you to see that it isn't all doom
and gloom is costing me time and energy I could better spend elsewhere.
On 20/11/2018 18:49, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
I don't put too much effort, and I don't
consider them negative. I just compared 2 products, one that I like and
another one that I don't like. That's all.
It wouldn't be helpful at all to contact the
developers, because they care about productivity and profit, and developing
a web interface is much more productive than developing a native GUI, plus
that the main target is the sighted users.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018
10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
100% more effort and time? Really?
How much effort and time do you put in to composing the emails you do
finding every negative thing you can? that's wasted energy and effort that
would have been better spent on learning something, or better yet,
composing missives to the developers and entering in to civil discourse
with them so you can see the improvements you'd like taking place.
On 20/11/2018 16:57, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
I'm also tired to explain you that not all
the people have the same needs from the same applications, because it
seems that it is hard for you to understand.
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100%
more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should
accept it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't
pretend that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about
it.
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd
have a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just
because I don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut
up instead if it is so hard for you to understand?
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018
12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come
in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and
you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode,
depending on your screenreader, then you can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of
you knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single
reason you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both
developers and end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm
sorry, but either put up, or shut up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
Yes, that's true. In some cases it
might be faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I
see is that the web interface is not standard, and anytime can
appear something new in that interface, advertising, a link there, a
button elsewhere, so we can't memorize that we need to press tab
twice and then enter and then do this fast without waiting for
screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change
depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they
can see the entire window, they can see the context very
fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself
navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older
interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these
are small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a
web interface.
This issue might be worked around
if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and
it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype
will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the
moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop
working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November
19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype
Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
and going through the proper channels and entering in to civil
discourse has worked so badly for the rest of us. I'm sorry, but
this attitude that you know everything and how you say it is is
the right of it, bothers me greatly.
you are only one voice of many, or to be a little more fair to
you, I suppose a few of many that are discontent with the changes.
Granted, not everyone is going to like them, but, a developer
cannot keep a thing because a hand full of end-users want it so.
This is the last I'm going to say on this, because I am just to
the point where typing responses and attempting to get you to see
that it isn't all doom and gloom is costing me time and energy I
could better spend elsewhere.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20/11/2018 18:49, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
I don't put too much effort, and
I don't consider them negative. I just compared 2 products,
one that I like and another one that I don't like. That's all.
It wouldn't be helpful at all to
contact the developers, because they care about productivity
and profit, and developing a web interface is much more
productive than developing a native GUI, plus that the main
target is the sighted users.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20,
2018 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
100% more effort and time? Really?
How much effort and time do you put in to composing the
emails you do finding every negative thing you can? that's
wasted energy and effort that would have been better spent on
learning something, or better yet, composing missives to the
developers and entering in to civil discourse with them so you
can see the improvements you'd like taking place.
On 20/11/2018 16:57, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:
I'm also tired to explain you
that not all the people have the same needs from the same
applications, because it seems that it is hard for you to
understand.
Pressing 2 keys instead of
one takes 100% more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for
everybody.
If something is not perfect,
we should accept it as is, but we should also agree that
is not perfect and don't pretend that it is perfect and we
should tell only good things about it.
If you say that you are so
tired, then I'd have a recommendation for you... instead
of telling me to shut up, just because I don't have the
same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead
if it is so hard for you to understand?
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November
20, 2018 12:55 AM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web
interaction come in to play. because you simply press e to
enter your edit field, and you're there. then tap your
space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending on
your screenreader, then you can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting
tired of you knit picking every single thing you can and
finding every single reason you can to decry not only
skype, but the tireless work both developers and end-users
have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but
either put up, or shut up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:
Yes, that's true. In some
cases it might be faster to navigate in the web
interface, but the problem I see is that the web
interface is not standard, and anytime can appear
something new in that interface, advertising, a link
there, a button elsewhere, so we can't memorize that
we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do
this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak.
I prefer the interfaces that never change depending on
context. For sighted it is not a problem because they
can see the entire window, they can see the context
very fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Monday,
November 19, 2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype
8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find
myself navigating a lot faster in the web
interface than the older interface but thats just
me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement
is good, but these are small improvements
while bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest
issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue
might be worked around if the scripts will
turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and
it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
The best news
is that for the moment Skype 7 still works.
Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
--Octavian
----- Original
Message -----
Sent:
Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't put too much effort, and I don't consider
them negative. I just compared 2 products, one that I like and another one that
I don't like. That's all.
It wouldn't be helpful at all to contact the
developers, because they care about productivity and profit, and developing a
web interface is much more productive than developing a native GUI, plus that
the main target is the sighted users.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 10:07
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
100% more effort and time? Really?
How much effort and time do you put in to composing the emails you do
finding every negative thing you can? that's wasted energy and effort that
would have been better spent on learning something, or better yet, composing
missives to the developers and entering in to civil discourse with them so you
can see the improvements you'd like taking place.
On 20/11/2018 16:57, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
I'm also tired to explain you that not all the
people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that
it is hard for you to understand.
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more
effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should accept
it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend
that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about
it.
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have
a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I
don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if
it is so hard for you to understand?
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018
12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to
play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're
there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending
on your screenreader, then you can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you
knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason
you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and
end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put
up, or shut up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be
faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that
the web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new
in that interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we
can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then
do this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the
interfaces that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not
a problem because they can see the entire window, they can see the
context very fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a
lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats
just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if
the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will
use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be
fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
100% more effort and time? Really?
How much effort and time do you put in to composing the emails
you do finding every negative thing you can? that's wasted energy
and effort that would have been better spent on learning
something, or better yet, composing missives to the developers and
entering in to civil discourse with them so you can see the
improvements you'd like taking place.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20/11/2018 16:57, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
I'm also tired to explain you
that not all the people have the same needs from the same
applications, because it seems that it is hard for you to
understand.
Pressing 2 keys instead of one
takes 100% more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for
everybody.
If something is not perfect, we
should accept it as is, but we should also agree that is not
perfect and don't pretend that it is perfect and we should
tell only good things about it.
If you say that you are so tired,
then I'd have a recommendation for you... instead of telling
me to shut up, just because I don't have the same preferences
as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if it is so hard for
you to understand?
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20,
2018 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction
come in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit
field, and you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to
forms or brows mode, depending on your screenreader, then you
can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired
of you knit picking every single thing you can and finding
every single reason you can to decry not only skype, but the
tireless work both developers and end-users have done to get
it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut
up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian
Rasnita wrote:
Yes, that's true. In some
cases it might be faster to navigate in the web interface,
but the problem I see is that the web interface is not
standard, and anytime can appear something new in that
interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere,
so we can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and
then enter and then do this fast without waiting for
screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never
change depending on context. For sighted it is not a
problem because they can see the entire window, they can
see the context very fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November
19, 2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself
navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the
older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is
good, but these are small improvements while
bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue:
Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be
worked around if the scripts will turn the
virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way
Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is
that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad
that it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Monday,
November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I'm also tired to explain you that not all the
people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that it
is hard for you to understand.
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more
effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should accept it as
is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend that it is
perfect and we should tell only good things about it.
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have a
recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I don't
have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if it is so
hard for you to understand?
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:55
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to
play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're there.
then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending on your
screenreader, then you can type away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you knit
picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason you can to
decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and end-users have
done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut
up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be
faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the
web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that
interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't
memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this
fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces
that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem
because they can see the entire window, they can see the context very
fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just
me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype
7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Of course. But if we can't stop it it doesn't mean
that we should pretend that it is better for us even if it is not.
The web interface is better for the sighted because
is more flexible.
The web interface is worse for me exactly because
it is flexible and it can appear surprises in it.
The sighted can see the whole screen at once, so
even if it changed completely, they can see those changes in a fraction of a
second so is not a problem for them.
The web interface can have easier added images,
icons and other signs that make it much more intuitive for the sighted, while
for us they are not useful at all.
In my humble opinion the accessibility for the
blind decreases continuously in the last years. I don't measure it in absolute
terms, because in absolute terms, probably it increased a little.
I measure it as the difference between the
accessibility for the sighted and the accessibility for the blind. And the
distance between these 2 things increased very much in latest years in both
hardware and software.
A good and positive target would be if this
distance would decrease as much as possible, not to accept that we are blind,
that we are a minority and it is normal to be disadvantaged.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 5:39
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Well, the web interfaces for most apps now a days are the way app devs are
doing it so in my humble opinion either change or get left behind. We are not
stopping.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 13:08, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be
faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the
web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that
interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't
memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this
fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces
that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem
because they can see the entire window, they can see the context very
fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just
me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype
7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will
always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all
would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all
of us.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot
and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you
still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over
it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part
nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put
it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a
minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as
we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending
litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had,
it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the
other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up
and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients
thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and
disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating
them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly
about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with
your arguments.
*SMH*
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Octavien, if you put as much
energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd
have nothing to complain about.".
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot
of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last
years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows
XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to
use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype
7 for me.
Don't think that all the people use the applications
the same way you use them.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever
was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you
do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a
lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just
me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are
small improvements while bigger issues will never be
solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use
only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment
Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working
soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Hi Doug,
OK, I understand.
"everything can be seen that way regardless of tab order".
This is exactly what I might want from some applications, and exactly what I don't want from an application like Skype.
I use to know what I want from Skype and I want to do it as fast as possible, without needing to review all content of its windows to see what they contain.
"whole-page Find feature".
It should be also helpful from an application that we need to explore each time, but at least for me, Skype is a very limited application that can help us do very few things: discuss verbally and text chat. In past it was also good for sending files. So I prefer it to remain a limited application that does very good what it does.
"apparent trend away from granting screen readers full and rapid access to all content at once".
Unfortunately this is much worse than the Skype problem, and it is an opposite problem, because it refers to web browsing, and yes, the web browsing is almost always an exploratory process where is helpful to see the whole content at once.
--Octavian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@dlee.org> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs I can't answer that question with authority because I haven't asked anyone for details. My guess, though, is that some people prefer a virtual cursor initially because everything can be seen that way regardless of tab order.
Another possible incentive for this view is the whole-page Find feature, Ctrl+F or Ins+Ctrl+F... though I'm not sure how long that feature will survive because of Edge and an apparent trend away from granting screen readers
full and rapid access to all content at once. There are reasons for this issue, but they stray beyond the focus of this list.
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 11:03:48PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sounds good. Why are there people that don't prefer to do this? Are there
any disadvantages?
I see as the single reason for not preferring this if some content is
presented as text in the HTML document and if that text would be lost when
reading with virtual cursor off. And yes, if Skype presents some text this
way, it is a reason why I consider it bad. If it doesn't do that, it might
be acceptable.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@dlee.org>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
My scripts do, in fact, turn off the virtual PC cursor by default; you can
turn it back on as you wish.
Not everyone prefers this approach for Electron apps, I find; and the
stock FS scripts for Skype 8 do not do this.
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 07:49:06PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]John Holcomb II
To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
[3]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter
References
1. mailto:jhii926@gmail.com
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3.
https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&;utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
4. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3519
5.
mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
6.
mailto:orasnita@gmail.com?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
7. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
8. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
9. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
11. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
12. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
--
Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both
incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by
dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper." --Rod Serling
--
Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com
"You must let me try, for a true soldier does not admit defeat before
the battle."
--Helen Keller (in a letter to the president of Radcliffe College)
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Sarah k Alawami
Well, the web interfaces for most apps now a days are the way app devs are doing it so in my humble opinion either change or get left behind. We are not stopping.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 19 Nov 2018, at 13:08, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be faster
to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the web
interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that
interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't memorize
that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this fast without
waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change
depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they can see the
entire window, they can see the context very fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small
improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only
the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible
this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7
still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29
PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions
and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency
with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you
had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay,
and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will
extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed,
and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a
minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line
as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products
are specifically designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive
and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is.
If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability
Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Octavien, if you
put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do
complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain
about.".
I already told you that this is not true.
I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use
it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse
and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will
be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still
be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
Don't think that all the people use the
applications the same way you use them.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android,
well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly
better than it ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new
skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to
complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k
Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself
navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the
older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is
good, but these are small improvements while
bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue:
Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be
worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC
cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be
fully accessible this way.
The best news is that
for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Monday,
November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.
I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions
and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency
with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you
had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay,
and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will
extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed,
and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a
minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line
as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products
are specifically designed and marketed towards us.
Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.
That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive
and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.
We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is.
If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability
Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.
*SMH*
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Octavien, if you
put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do
complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain
about.".
I already told you that this is not true.
I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use
it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse
and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will
be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still
be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
Don't think that all the people use the
applications the same way you use them.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android,
well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly
better than it ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new
skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to
complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k
Alawami wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself
navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the
older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is
good, but these are small improvements while
bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue:
Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be
worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC
cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be
fully accessible this way.
The best news is that
for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Monday,
November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
It is worth noting that the scripts from fS also turn off the birtual cursor.
Roy
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Nov 19, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Doug Lee <dgl@dlee.org> wrote:
I can't answer that question with authority because I haven't asked anyone for details. My guess, though, is that some people prefer a virtual cursor initially because everything can be seen that way regardless of tab order.
Another possible incentive for this view is the whole-page Find feature, Ctrl+F or Ins+Ctrl+F... though I'm not sure how long that feature will survive because of Edge and an apparent trend away from granting screen readers
full and rapid access to all content at once. There are reasons for this issue, but they stray beyond the focus of this list.
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 11:03:48PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sounds good. Why are there people that don't prefer to do this? Are there
any disadvantages?
I see as the single reason for not preferring this if some content is
presented as text in the HTML document and if that text would be lost when
reading with virtual cursor off. And yes, if Skype presents some text this
way, it is a reason why I consider it bad. If it doesn't do that, it might
be acceptable.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@dlee.org>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
My scripts do, in fact, turn off the virtual PC cursor by default; you can
turn it back on as you wish.
Not everyone prefers this approach for Electron apps, I find; and the
stock FS scripts for Skype 8 do not do this.
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 07:49:06PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]John Holcomb II
To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
[3]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter
References
1. mailto:jhii926@gmail.com
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3.
https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&;utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
4. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3519
5.
mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
6.
mailto:orasnita@gmail.com?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
7. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
8. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
9. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
11. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
12. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
--
Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both
incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by
dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper." --Rod Serling
--
Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com
"You must let me try, for a true soldier does not admit defeat before
the battle."
--Helen Keller (in a letter to the president of Radcliffe College)
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come
in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field,
and you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or
brows mode, depending on your screenreader, then you can type
away.
It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of
you knit picking every single thing you can and finding every
single reason you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless
work both developers and end-users have done to get it where it is
today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut up.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
Yes, that's true. In some cases
it might be faster to navigate in the web interface, but the
problem I see is that the web interface is not standard, and
anytime can appear something new in that interface,
advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't
memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and
then do this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak.
I prefer the interfaces that never change depending on
context. For sighted it is not a problem because they can see
the entire window, they can see the context very fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19,
2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish]
New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself
navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the
older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is
good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue:
Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be
worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC
cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be
fully accessible this way.
The best news is that
for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it
will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Monday,
November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in
Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
|
|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I can't answer that question with authority because I haven't asked anyone for details. My guess, though, is that some people prefer a virtual cursor initially because everything can be seen that way regardless of tab order.
Another possible incentive for this view is the whole-page Find feature, Ctrl+F or Ins+Ctrl+F... though I'm not sure how long that feature will survive because of Edge and an apparent trend away from granting screen readers
full and rapid access to all content at once. There are reasons for this issue, but they stray beyond the focus of this list.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 11:03:48PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote: Sounds good. Why are there people that don't prefer to do this? Are there any disadvantages? I see as the single reason for not preferring this if some content is presented as text in the HTML document and if that text would be lost when reading with virtual cursor off. And yes, if Skype presents some text this way, it is a reason why I consider it bad. If it doesn't do that, it might be acceptable. --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@dlee.org> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs My scripts do, in fact, turn off the virtual PC cursor by default; you can
turn it back on as you wish.
Not everyone prefers this approach for Electron apps, I find; and the
stock FS scripts for Skype 8 do not do this.
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 07:49:06PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]John Holcomb II
To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
[3]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter
References
1. mailto:jhii926@gmail.com
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3.
https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&;utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
4. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3519
5.
mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
6.
mailto:orasnita@gmail.com?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
7. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
8. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
9. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
11. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
12. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
--
Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both
incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by
dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper." --Rod Serling
-- Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.orgLevel Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com"You must let me try, for a true soldier does not admit defeat before the battle." --Helen Keller (in a letter to the president of Radcliffe College)
|
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
"Octavien, if you put as much energy
in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing
to complain about.".
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of
efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it
very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for
me.
Don't think that all the people use the applications the
same way you use them.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's
a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do
complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small
improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only
the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible
this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7
still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018
7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be faster
to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the web
interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that
interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't memorize
that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this fast without
waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change
depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they can see the
entire window, they can see the context very fast.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small
improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the
scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only
the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible
this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7
still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29
PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New
accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Sounds good. Why are there people that don't prefer to do this? Are there any disadvantages?
I see as the single reason for not preferring this if some content is presented as text in the HTML document and if that text would be lost when reading with virtual cursor off. And yes, if Skype presents some text this way, it is a reason why I consider it bad. If it doesn't do that, it might be acceptable.
--Octavian
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@dlee.org> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs My scripts do, in fact, turn off the virtual PC cursor by default; you can turn it back on as you wish.
Not everyone prefers this approach for Electron apps, I find; and the stock FS scripts for Skype 8 do not do this.
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 07:49:06PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: [1]John Holcomb II
To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs
[3]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter
References
1. mailto:jhii926@gmail.com
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&;utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
4. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3519
5. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
6. mailto:orasnita@gmail.com?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
7. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
8. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
9. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
11. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
12. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
--
Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com
"It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both
incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by
dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper." --Rod Serling
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android,
well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better
than it ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype
as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain
about.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find
myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the
older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good,
but these are small improvements while bigger issues
will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype
8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be
worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC
cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully
accessible this way.
The best news is that for
the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will
probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Monday,
November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype
8.0 | Skype Blogs
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|
|
Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Sarah k Alawami
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small
improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts
will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor,
and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still
works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29
PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility
improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
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