Date   

Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Shaun Oliver
 

yes, admitedly, so do I.

however, to venture further down this path would be going beyond the scope of this forum.

On 21/11/2018 07:35, João nuno antunes wrote:
right. however, I love google chrome...


Às 20:53 de 20-11-2018, Doug Lee escreveu:
You do not have to install Chrome to use Skype 8 (Electron), because Skype 8 comes with its own instance of Chrome.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 08:44:46PM +0000, Jo??o nuno antunes wrote:
or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?

�s 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:

because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an
announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted
on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the
same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good
because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or
another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's
clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many
years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us
that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger
was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we
also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface
that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I
might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either
newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its
place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of
the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought
Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then,
that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.

Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching,
pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have
to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key
on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands
to do that I'm sure.

Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list,
so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front
of you.

either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord
split ya.

On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from
you.

Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?

Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?



You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
who are those "we"?

Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed
that all list members don't like my messages?

And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain
number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those
other list members should not send those messages? Or something like
that?

I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages
against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of
messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.



You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my
opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that
I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their
opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken
record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but
I am not?



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We
have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or
the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the
minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new
ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as
a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be
disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to
pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Shaun Oliver

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with
Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had.
build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we
do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.

That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and
positive, instead of negative and disruptive.

We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If
you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access
Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*

On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".



I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.

After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well,
but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.



Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you
use them.



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Shaun Oliver

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
ever was.

Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.

On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.

The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.

The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [7]John Holcomb II

To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs

[9]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter

--
Jo�o Nuno Antunes


References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:blindman75@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:@JHRadio
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3556
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
12. mailto:superman1986@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Shaun Oliver
 

that being said, neither is necessary for Skype Electron, as Doug already mentioned, it contains a self contained instance of Chrome


On 21/11/2018 07:26, Stephen Troy wrote:

No. it’s not necessary for you to have chrome. You can use either firefox or internet explorer.

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of João nuno antunes
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:45 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 

or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?

 

Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:

because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.

 

Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.

 

Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you.

 

either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.

Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?

Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?

 

You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?

Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?

And btw, is there a rule  of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?

I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.

 

You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.

Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.

 

That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.

 

We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*

 

On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".

 

I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.

After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.

 

Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Shaun Oliver

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.

 

Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.

 

On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.

 

The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.

This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.

 

The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 



-- 
João Nuno Antunes


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

João nuno antunes
 

right. however, I love google chrome...


Às 20:53 de 20-11-2018, Doug Lee escreveu:

You do not have to install Chrome to use Skype 8 (Electron), because Skype 8 comes with its own instance of Chrome.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 08:44:46PM +0000, Jo??o nuno antunes wrote:
or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?

�s 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:

because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an
announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted
on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the
same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good
because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or
another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's
clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many
years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us
that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger
was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we
also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface
that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I
might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either
newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its
place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of
the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought
Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then,
that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.

Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching,
pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have
to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key
on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands
to do that I'm sure.

Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list,
so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front
of you.

either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord
split ya.

On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from
you.

Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?

Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?



You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
who are those "we"?

Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed
that all list members don't like my messages?

And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain
number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those
other list members should not send those messages? Or something like
that?

I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages
against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of
messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.



You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my
opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that
I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their
opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken
record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but
I am not?



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We
have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or
the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the
minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new
ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as
a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be
disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to
pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Shaun Oliver

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with
Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had.
build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we
do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.

That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and
positive, instead of negative and disruptive.

We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If
you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access
Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*

On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".



I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.

After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well,
but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.



Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you
use them.



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Shaun Oliver

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
ever was.

Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.

On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.

The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.

The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [7]John Holcomb II

To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs

[9]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter

--
Jo�o Nuno Antunes



References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:blindman75@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:@JHRadio
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3556
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
12. mailto:superman1986@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged
--
João Nuno Antunes


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Stephen Troy
 

No. it’s not necessary for you to have chrome. You can use either firefox or internet explorer.

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of João nuno antunes
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:45 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 

or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?

 

Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:

because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.

 

Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.

 

Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you.

 

either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.

Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?

Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?

 

You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?

Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?

And btw, is there a rule  of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?

I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.

 

You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.

Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.

 

That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.

 

We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*

 

On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".

 

I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.

After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.

 

Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.

 

Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.

 

On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.

 

The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.

This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.

 

The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

 



-- 
João Nuno Antunes


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Shaun Oliver
 

no, you don't.


Skype is a self contained unit, thus, no need for Chrome.


On 21/11/2018 07:14, João nuno antunes wrote:

or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?


Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:

because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.


Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.


Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you.


either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
 
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule  of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
 
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.


That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.


We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*


On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
 
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
 
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.


Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.


On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs


-- 
João Nuno Antunes


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Doug Lee
 

You do not have to install Chrome to use Skype 8 (Electron), because Skype 8 comes with its own instance of Chrome.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 08:44:46PM +0000, Jo??o nuno antunes wrote:
or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?

s 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:

because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an
announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted
on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the
same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good
because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or
another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's
clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many
years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us
that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger
was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we
also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface
that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I
might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either
newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its
place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of
the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought
Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then,
that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.

Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching,
pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have
to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key
on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands
to do that I'm sure.

Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list,
so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front
of you.

either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord
split ya.

On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from
you.

Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?

Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?



You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
who are those "we"?

Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed
that all list members don't like my messages?

And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain
number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those
other list members should not send those messages? Or something like
that?

I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages
against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of
messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.



You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my
opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that
I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their
opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken
record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but
I am not?



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We
have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or
the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the
minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new
ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as
a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be
disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to
pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Shaun Oliver

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with
Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had.
build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we
do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.

That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and
positive, instead of negative and disruptive.

We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If
you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access
Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*

On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".



I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.

After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well,
but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.



Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you
use them.



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Shaun Oliver

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
ever was.

Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.

On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.

The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.

The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [7]John Holcomb II

To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs

[9]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter

--
Joo Nuno Antunes



References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:blindman75@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:@JHRadio
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3556
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
12. mailto:superman1986@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com
Don't be afraid your life will end; be afraid that itwill never begin.
-- Grace Hansen


Re: Of Fire and Functionality (was Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs)

Shaun Oliver
 

and that same thing applies when I decide to join the apple beta program and test out up coming releases of IOS and OSX. There's a feedback asistant there, and I make full use of it. especially when I find things that could potentially be show stoppers.

On 21/11/2018 07:05, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Exactly. I  was an insider for a few months before my system bricked. My fault, but I do submit the feedback to skype and make sure it gets acted upon either via twitter or fcebook. Again way to say what I cannot as I don't have good word usage. Are the changes happening, not fast, but very very slowly and I'm quite happy with the pace. I'd rther have slow and almost bug free rather than fast and a lot of bugs for the public to find.

Take care

On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:19, Doug Lee wrote:

In my long-considered opinion, Octavian, Sarah has been quite patient with you of late.

You act like we condemn you for disagreement. No. We are tired of repetition. Beyond that, we believe in translating discomfort, such as difficulty with a new interface, into potentially productive action. I script, and I
report problems via Skype feedback forms. Those actions stand a chance to improve our lot with Skype 8. Your opinion expressions on this list do not, because no one here is able to alter Skype 8 itself and I have already
addressed the issues in Skype 8 that I saw.

You obviously feel strongly that Skype 8 is problematic. Fine. But as long as your reaction consists of nothing but list messages here repeating the same thoughts, you will not gain much respect.

And about that, if our mod will pardon me for this...

When a theater catches fire, which of these will gain the most respect, which will get the most usefully done, and which of us here is parallel to which in this story?
- The first movie goer to spot the flames and shout "FIRE!"
- Another movie goer who says very little but quickly starts directing traffic toward the exit.
- The by-standing construction worker who mumbles, "That place wasn't built very well," then walks on by.
- The second bystander who hears him and yells, "By all that is good, built it right next time!" and walks on by.
- The third bystander, another construction worker, who mutters disgustedly, "Modern building codes are not good enough anymore!" but also joins a committee to update building codes.
- The fireman who, perhaps after pausing for 2.5 seconds to stare incredulously at all the others, flies into the building and puts out the fire just before it manages to block the exit.

My answers, for anyone who wants to know...

Who will gain the most respect? Probably the fireman, for resolving the immediate problem. But not all of us are fireman; so we are lucky one was on hand.

Which will get the most usefully done? Potentially the second construction worker, as no other effort is being made to make buildings safer in the future. She will probably not be widely respected because nobody will notice what
she's doing. The bystanders probably muttered back at her, as she marched off with a determined air, "Oh look at her, shaking her fist at the mamoth!" But determination can make mammoths listen sometimes.

Which of us is which in this story? I submit this as my list:
- I am the fireman, for making things work immediately with scripts. But not all of us are fireman...
- Any of us, such as Michele, who are dilligent at announcing Skype-related changes here are one of the two movie goers. Of these, the ones who just gripe about things are more like the first, for spreading more panic than
  remedy; and those who work to inform us more than alarm us are like the second.
- I'm afraid you, Octavian, currently look much like one of the first two bystanders to me: You comment and/or yell about the problems you see, yet willfully do nothing to address them. Not everyone is a fireman (or a scripter), but many
  of us can direct our complaints where they might make a difference.
- Those who file Microsoft feedback are like the third bystander who goes to join a committee. It may not seem like much, and it may initially look pointless; but that one is channeling energy where it can matter.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 09:11:32PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
   Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from
   you.

   Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?

   Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?



   You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
   who are those "we"?

   Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed
   that all list members don't like my messages?

   And btw, is there a rule  of this list that tells that if a certain
   number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those
   other list members should not send those messages? Or something like
   that?

   I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages
   against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of
   messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.



   You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my
   opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that
   I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their
   opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken
   record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but
   I am not?



   --Octavian

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

   To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

   Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM

   Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
   | Skype Blogs

   Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We
   have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or
   the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
   starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the
   minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new
   ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as
   a list member, not a mod.

   Take care

   On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

   <U+00BF>

   Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be
   disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
   doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
   it.
   Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to
   pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.

   --Octavian

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: [3]Shaun Oliver

   To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

   Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM

   Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
   | Skype Blogs

     that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

     I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
     whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with
     Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had.
     build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
     amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
     the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
     so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we
     do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
     wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
     designed and marketed towards us.

     Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
     ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
     than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
     this, it's that, or it's the other.

     That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
     thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
     Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and
     positive, instead of negative and disruptive.

     We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
     reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If
     you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access
     Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

     *SMH*

   On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

     <U+00BF>

   "Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
   you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".



   I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
   learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
   but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.

   After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well,
   but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.



   Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you
   use them.



   --Octavian

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: [5]Shaun Oliver

   To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

   Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM

   Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
   | Skype Blogs

     so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
     that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
     ever was.

     Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
     you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.

   On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

   I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
   faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

   On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

   Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
   issues will never be solved.

   The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
   This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
   buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
   course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.

   The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
   it will probably stop working soon.

   --Octavian

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: [7]John Holcomb II

   To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io

   Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM

   Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
   Skype Blogs

[9]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
   ter



References

   1. mailto:marrie12@...
   2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
   3. mailto:blindman75@...
   4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
   5. mailto:blindman75@...
   6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
   7. mailto:@JHRadio
   8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
   9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
  10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3549
  11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
  12. mailto:orasnita@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
  13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
  14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
  15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
  16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
  17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
  18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

--
Doug Lee                 dgl@...
http://www.dlee.org
Level Access             doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do
what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with
them while they do it."--Theodore Roosevelt


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

João nuno antunes
 

or curiosity, tu use skype electron, must I install google chrome?


Às 19:41 de 20-11-2018, Shaun Oliver escreveu:

because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.


Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.


Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you.


either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
 
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule  of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
 
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.


That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.


We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*


On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
 
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
 
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.


Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.


On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs


-- 
João Nuno Antunes


Minor correction regarding FS Skype 8 scripts

Doug Lee
 

Yesterday I remarked that Freedom Scientific's built-in scripts for Skype 8 do not disable the virtual PC cursor.

I was wrong, and my coworker and friend Roy caught the error; thanks for this. :-)

In both JAWS 2018 and 2019, the default Freedom Scientific scripts for Skype 8 do shut off the virtual PC cursor, according to my tests yesterday and today.


--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com
No one alive is beyond hope; every second of life is a chance.
(08/29/02)


Re: Of Fire and Functionality (was Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs)

Sarah k Alawami
 

Exactly. I was an insider for a few months before my system bricked. My fault, but I do submit the feedback to skype and make sure it gets acted upon either via twitter or fcebook. Again way to say what I cannot as I don't have good word usage. Are the changes happening, not fast, but very very slowly and I'm quite happy with the pace. I'd rther have slow and almost bug free rather than fast and a lot of bugs for the public to find.

Take care

On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:19, Doug Lee wrote:

In my long-considered opinion, Octavian, Sarah has been quite patient with you of late.

You act like we condemn you for disagreement. No. We are tired of repetition. Beyond that, we believe in translating discomfort, such as difficulty with a new interface, into potentially productive action. I script, and I
report problems via Skype feedback forms. Those actions stand a chance to improve our lot with Skype 8. Your opinion expressions on this list do not, because no one here is able to alter Skype 8 itself and I have already
addressed the issues in Skype 8 that I saw.

You obviously feel strongly that Skype 8 is problematic. Fine. But as long as your reaction consists of nothing but list messages here repeating the same thoughts, you will not gain much respect.

And about that, if our mod will pardon me for this...

When a theater catches fire, which of these will gain the most respect, which will get the most usefully done, and which of us here is parallel to which in this story?
- The first movie goer to spot the flames and shout "FIRE!"
- Another movie goer who says very little but quickly starts directing traffic toward the exit.
- The by-standing construction worker who mumbles, "That place wasn't built very well," then walks on by.
- The second bystander who hears him and yells, "By all that is good, built it right next time!" and walks on by.
- The third bystander, another construction worker, who mutters disgustedly, "Modern building codes are not good enough anymore!" but also joins a committee to update building codes.
- The fireman who, perhaps after pausing for 2.5 seconds to stare incredulously at all the others, flies into the building and puts out the fire just before it manages to block the exit.

My answers, for anyone who wants to know...

Who will gain the most respect? Probably the fireman, for resolving the immediate problem. But not all of us are fireman; so we are lucky one was on hand.

Which will get the most usefully done? Potentially the second construction worker, as no other effort is being made to make buildings safer in the future. She will probably not be widely respected because nobody will notice what
she's doing. The bystanders probably muttered back at her, as she marched off with a determined air, "Oh look at her, shaking her fist at the mamoth!" But determination can make mammoths listen sometimes.

Which of us is which in this story? I submit this as my list:
- I am the fireman, for making things work immediately with scripts. But not all of us are fireman...
- Any of us, such as Michele, who are dilligent at announcing Skype-related changes here are one of the two movie goers. Of these, the ones who just gripe about things are more like the first, for spreading more panic than
remedy; and those who work to inform us more than alarm us are like the second.
- I'm afraid you, Octavian, currently look much like one of the first two bystanders to me: You comment and/or yell about the problems you see, yet willfully do nothing to address them. Not everyone is a fireman (or a scripter), but many
of us can direct our complaints where they might make a difference.
- Those who file Microsoft feedback are like the third bystander who goes to join a committee. It may not seem like much, and it may initially look pointless; but that one is channeling energy where it can matter.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 09:11:32PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from
you.

Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?

Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?



You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
who are those "we"?

Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed
that all list members don't like my messages?

And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain
number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those
other list members should not send those messages? Or something like
that?

I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages
against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of
messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.



You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my
opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that
I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their
opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken
record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but
I am not?



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We
have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or
the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the
minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new
ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as
a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

<U+00BF>

Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be
disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to
pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Shaun Oliver

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with
Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had.
build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we
do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.

That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and
positive, instead of negative and disruptive.

We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If
you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access
Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*

On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

<U+00BF>

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".



I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.

After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well,
but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.



Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you
use them.



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Shaun Oliver

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
ever was.

Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.

On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.

The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.

The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [7]John Holcomb II

To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs

[9]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter



References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:blindman75@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:@JHRadio
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3549
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
12. mailto:orasnita@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

--
Doug Lee dgl@...
http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do
what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with
them while they do it."--Theodore Roosevelt


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Sarah k Alawami
 

Oh way to twist my words. No, you are a broken record because you say the same things about skype etc and not constructivally, not at all. It just looks like wining and moanig and all the other crud most of my blind folks I know of do. Instead of doing that, take action.. My complaints and feedback I've already sent to microsoft in the form of bug reports. Why not do the same and be proactive instead of reactive. Complain to mocrocrap and see what they say.

Good luck.

On 20 Nov 2018, at 11:11, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
 
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule  of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
 
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.


That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.


We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*


On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
 
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
 
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.


Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.


On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Sarah k Alawami
 

It will be bad, when skype 7 stops, and it will, so either get with it and use skype 8 and love hate it, or leave. And you did not say yu are the minority but I know how to read between the lines and the truth is, you are a minority, you and people who do not want to submit feedback to devs and just complain on lists and forum boards.. I know several members on other list swho do that and we all tell them the same thing eithe ruse what you are given and submit feedback or go to somethingn else.

Take care

On 20 Nov 2018, at 11:06, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


You keep telling me that I am a minority, but I don't understand what this has something to do with the fact that I consider that skype 8 is worse than Skype 7.
Do I said that I consider that Skype 8 is worse than Skype 7 for all blind users?
If I would do that, then yes, you could tell me that I am wrong, and that no, for many people Skype 8 is very good.
I just said that Skype 8 is worse for me than Skype 7, and it doesn't matter if millions of blind people consider Skype 8 as good as Skype 7, for me Skype 7 will remain better.
 
Or did I said that those who consider Skype 7 better is a majority?
No, I didn't. I just said that I just like more skype 7. That's all.
Is that something so bad if I still like Skype 7 and all accessible native apps better than web-based apps?
 
But no, probably the problem is elsewhere, because you and some other list member I think that agreed that there is a minority that prefers Skype 7, so you accept that some people prefer Skype 7.
 
Do you like  only positive opinions of other people about the things that you like?
I hope that it is not the case.
If you buy something, a phone, a car, a dress, and ask your friend his/her opinion about that thing, do you feel bad if your friend tells you that he or she doesn't like that thing at all?
 
I am just trying to see what's the problem with hearing other people's opinions if they don't match with yours.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Who said anyting about pressing two keys. I just use one and it is awesome. You again are the minority here.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


I'm also tired to explain you that not all the people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that it is hard for you to understand.
 
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should accept it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about it.
 
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if it is so hard for you to understand?
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending on your screenreader, then you can type away.

It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut up.


On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they can see the entire window, they can see the context very fast.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs


Of Fire and Functionality (was Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs)

Doug Lee
 

In my long-considered opinion, Octavian, Sarah has been quite patient with you of late.

You act like we condemn you for disagreement. No. We are tired of repetition. Beyond that, we believe in translating discomfort, such as difficulty with a new interface, into potentially productive action. I script, and I
report problems via Skype feedback forms. Those actions stand a chance to improve our lot with Skype 8. Your opinion expressions on this list do not, because no one here is able to alter Skype 8 itself and I have already
addressed the issues in Skype 8 that I saw.

You obviously feel strongly that Skype 8 is problematic. Fine. But as long as your reaction consists of nothing but list messages here repeating the same thoughts, you will not gain much respect.

And about that, if our mod will pardon me for this...

When a theater catches fire, which of these will gain the most respect, which will get the most usefully done, and which of us here is parallel to which in this story?
- The first movie goer to spot the flames and shout "FIRE!"
- Another movie goer who says very little but quickly starts directing traffic toward the exit.
- The by-standing construction worker who mumbles, "That place wasn't built very well," then walks on by.
- The second bystander who hears him and yells, "By all that is good, built it right next time!" and walks on by.
- The third bystander, another construction worker, who mutters disgustedly, "Modern building codes are not good enough anymore!" but also joins a committee to update building codes.
- The fireman who, perhaps after pausing for 2.5 seconds to stare incredulously at all the others, flies into the building and puts out the fire just before it manages to block the exit.

My answers, for anyone who wants to know...

Who will gain the most respect? Probably the fireman, for resolving the immediate problem. But not all of us are fireman; so we are lucky one was on hand.

Which will get the most usefully done? Potentially the second construction worker, as no other effort is being made to make buildings safer in the future. She will probably not be widely respected because nobody will notice what
she's doing. The bystanders probably muttered back at her, as she marched off with a determined air, "Oh look at her, shaking her fist at the mamoth!" But determination can make mammoths listen sometimes.

Which of us is which in this story? I submit this as my list:
- I am the fireman, for making things work immediately with scripts. But not all of us are fireman...
- Any of us, such as Michele, who are dilligent at announcing Skype-related changes here are one of the two movie goers. Of these, the ones who just gripe about things are more like the first, for spreading more panic than
remedy; and those who work to inform us more than alarm us are like the second.
- I'm afraid you, Octavian, currently look much like one of the first two bystanders to me: You comment and/or yell about the problems you see, yet willfully do nothing to address them. Not everyone is a fireman (or a scripter), but many
of us can direct our complaints where they might make a difference.
- Those who file Microsoft feedback are like the third bystander who goes to join a committee. It may not seem like much, and it may initially look pointless; but that one is channeling energy where it can matter.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 09:11:32PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from
you.

Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?

Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?



You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me
who are those "we"?

Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed
that all list members don't like my messages?

And btw, is there a rule of this list that tells that if a certain
number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those
other list members should not send those messages? Or something like
that?

I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages
against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of
messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.



You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my
opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that
I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their
opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken
record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but
I am not?



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We
have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or
the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are
starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the
minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new
ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as
a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be
disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this
doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change
it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to
pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Shaun Oliver

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and
whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with
Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had.
build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no
amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend
the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly
so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we
do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all
wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically
designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never
ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse
than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's
this, it's that, or it's the other.

That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to
thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning
Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and
positive, instead of negative and disruptive.

We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and
reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If
you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access
Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*

On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:



"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".



I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in
learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.

After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well,
but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.



Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you
use them.



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Shaun Oliver

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0
| Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well,
that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it
ever was.

Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as
you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.

On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot
faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger
issues will never be solved.

The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual
buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of
course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.

The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that
it will probably stop working soon.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [7]John Holcomb II

To: [8]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 |
Skype Blogs

[9]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen
ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit
ter



References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:blindman75@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:blindman75@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:@JHRadio
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3549
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
12. mailto:orasnita@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs
13. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874
14. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
15. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
16. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
17. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
18. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@... http://www.LevelAccess.com
"The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do
what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with
them while they do it."--Theodore Roosevelt


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Shaun Oliver
 

because, you ignoramus, every cotton pickin' time, there's an announcement telling us of improvements to Skype, and it is posted on this list, you are the only one that arks up and pulls out the same old argument time and time again, how it will never be good because it is already worse and how they need to do one thing or another to improve it. or, better yet, bring back something that's clearly been put to bed, and was considered being put to bed many years before you even had an inkling of it being so. those of us that watch trends and the like, knew that the minute MSN Messenger was shut down, Skype was going to be the way of things. moreover, we also knew that the interface, such as it was, which was an interface that hadn't changed overly much for the better part of ten years, I might add, was very likely to be done away with and something either newer or better or even, god forbid, both, was going to take its place. A few of us knew, even back when Messenger went the way of the dodo bird, that change was on the cards. and when MS bought Skype and sounded the deathnel for Messenger, we knew even then, that Skype was going to become their flagship Messenger service.


Really, you are the minority, because you are the only one bitching, pissing and moaning about the unfairness of it all and how you have to exert 100% more effort. Christ, it must be so hard to press a key on that keyboard, it's got to be a strain on the brain and the hands to do that I'm sure.


Really, It's been said before by myself, and by others on this list, so it's not our fault if you choose to ignore what's right in front of you.


either get with it, or don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

On 21/11/2018 05:41, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
 
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule  of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
 
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.


That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.


We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*


On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
 
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
 
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.


Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.


On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Octavian Rasnita
 


Sarah, I asked you some time ago, but I haven't got any answer from you.
Do you accept only positive remarks about Skype on this list?
Do you like only the remarks that are the same as yours?
 
You say that "we are starting to not like it". Can you please tell me who are those "we"?
Were there votes made among all members of the list and you observed that all list members don't like my messages?
And btw, is there a rule  of this list that tells that if a certain number of members don't like the opinions of other list members, those other list members should not send those messages? Or something like that?
I didn't send messages with swears, and I didn't send strong messages against other list members, but yes, a list member sent that kind of messages for me just because he didn't like my opinion.
 
You said that I sound like a broken record just because I told my opinion for more times about the Skype version I like and the one that I don't like. But what about the other people that expressed their opinion but their opinion was different? They don't sound like a broken record only because their opinion matches yours, or why they are OK but I am not?
 
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.


That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.


We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*


On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
 
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
 
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.


Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.


On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Octavian Rasnita
 


You keep telling me that I am a minority, but I don't understand what this has something to do with the fact that I consider that skype 8 is worse than Skype 7.
Do I said that I consider that Skype 8 is worse than Skype 7 for all blind users?
If I would do that, then yes, you could tell me that I am wrong, and that no, for many people Skype 8 is very good.
I just said that Skype 8 is worse for me than Skype 7, and it doesn't matter if millions of blind people consider Skype 8 as good as Skype 7, for me Skype 7 will remain better.
 
Or did I said that those who consider Skype 7 better is a majority?
No, I didn't. I just said that I just like more skype 7. That's all.
Is that something so bad if I still like Skype 7 and all accessible native apps better than web-based apps?
 
But no, probably the problem is elsewhere, because you and some other list member I think that agreed that there is a minority that prefers Skype 7, so you accept that some people prefer Skype 7.
 
Do you like  only positive opinions of other people about the things that you like?
I hope that it is not the case.
If you buy something, a phone, a car, a dress, and ask your friend his/her opinion about that thing, do you feel bad if your friend tells you that he or she doesn't like that thing at all?
 
I am just trying to see what's the problem with hearing other people's opinions if they don't match with yours.
 
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Who said anyting about pressing two keys. I just use one and it is awesome. You again are the minority here.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:


I'm also tired to explain you that not all the people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that it is hard for you to understand.
 
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should accept it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about it.
 
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if it is so hard for you to understand?
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending on your screenreader, then you can type away.

It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut up.


On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they can see the entire window, they can see the context very fast.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs


Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151

Jerry Pryde
 

Something interesting just happened today.

Some sent a chat message via Skype, and the scripts are working now.  That's all it took.

Strange, but true.

On 17/11/2018 12:29 p.m., Doug Lee wrote:
Aha! This I can work with - it means the mrw script is compiled with a JAWS version that produced a jsb that you can't use. That probably means that the mrw scripts don't work below JAWS 16 after all, but I didn't know it
because I can't run JAWS 15 here anymore.

I have uploaded an update. Please download and try again from http://www.dlee.org/mrw/

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 01:42:17PM -0500, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Script load error.

The mrw/freedom scientific jsb is not the proper version; something like that.

I couldn't copy and paste it.

On 16/11/2018 1:34 p.m., Doug Lee wrote:
Can you let us know the actual message you get from mrw on your system?

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 01:21:18PM -0500, Jerry Pryde wrote:
The MRW scripts don't work here with jaws 15 and windows 7.

It seems there's something not quite right with JAWS.

It says something to that effect on installation.

On 15/11/2018 11:22 a.m., Doug Lee wrote:
15.0 is the minimum version of JAWS that should be supported; so yes, they should work there. I probably never tested the mrw scripts under JAWS 15 though.

Just as a gentle alert: I can no longer practically test scripts on my own machine against JAWS versions older than 18. Some of my projects are moving to cut off at JAWS 14 currently. The next cutoff line may be JAWS 15 but may
be a later version. I have not determined yet either when the next cutoff will occur or at which JAWS verssion. I do avoid cutting off old JAWS versions until I have a reason to do it, but then I tend to cut at a transitional
version for scripting features that I can use to improve efficiency, support newer application types, etc.

On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 11:09:05AM -0500, Jerry Pryde wrote:
PS:

I tried to install from that link, but it seems to indicate that this version
of JAWS isn't compatible.

On 15/11/2018 10:58 a.m., Doug Lee wrote:
I thought of suggesting that, and it will be useful to see if installing those and activating the workaround will help; but I don't yet know how likely that is to succeed. I'm working on professional projects at the moment
though, so I won't be able to do anything significant with this for a while. The mrw idea might be good to try in the mean time.

On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 04:53:47PM +0100, Michele Barbi wrote:
Now that it comes to my mind, you could try installing the MRW scripts, which
stands for MSAA Registration Workaround. Here are more infos on these scripts
usage and how to install those: http://www.dlee.org/mrw/
Bye!
Barbuz



Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Jerry Pryde
 

LOL
I just read your note, Mike.

Perfect reasoning.

I tend to use what's available as long as it works.

But, when it doesn't, and I have to learn the new version, skype for example, I'll do just that.

Sure: It's a pain in the butt.  But, even in online life, stuff happens, and us blind people just need to live in the real world, and move on; even for a stubborn Canadian like me. LOL

I still say I should be able to buy a TV at half price, because, I only use half of it; the audio. lol


On 20/11/2018 12:48 p.m., Mike DeZinno wrote:

Dear Serah,
Thanks so much for speaking up!

the lack of development of tech for the blind isn't that the blind are a minority, there are millions of us around the world and we could be a very powerful economic demographic accept for one little fact.
What's the real minority is the number of blind people who are willing to use their own money to pay for their unique tech needs.

Skype is free!
Doug Lee's work creating, updating, and maintaining cutting edge Skype scripts is all free also.
heck, even membership in this community is free!
Maybe if we had to pay for Skype and the scripts to access it there would be fewer complaints

You and Doug and the other mods here also have personal lives and bills to pay outside of this forum.
Those who constantly complain contribute what? to this group?

There is a lot of tech not accessible by the blind, like your radio digital dials.  an and radio has been around for over 100 years!  LOL
Lets start an on-line group to complain about radio, and then TV, and then all the cars that the blind can't drive  or planes we can't fly yet! LOL

Thanks giving is a few days away, maybe it's time to be a little more thankful for what we have been blessed with rather than focused on what we feel entitled to have that we haven't received.

Mike in SC






At 12:09 PM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
minority

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Oliver
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.


That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.


We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*


On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
 
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
 
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Oliver
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.


Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.


On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: John Holcomb II
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Mike DeZinno
 

Dear Serah,
Thanks so much for speaking up!

the lack of development of tech for the blind isn't that the blind are a minority, there are millions of us around the world and we could be a very powerful economic demographic accept for one little fact.
What's the real minority is the number of blind people who are willing to use their own money to pay for their unique tech needs.

Skype is free!
Doug Lee's work creating, updating, and maintaining cutting edge Skype scripts is all free also.
heck, even membership in this community is free!
Maybe if we had to pay for Skype and the scripts to access it there would be fewer complaints

You and Doug and the other mods here also have personal lives and bills to pay outside of this forum.
Those who constantly complain contribute what? to this group?

There is a lot of tech not accessible by the blind, like your radio digital dials.  an and radio has been around for over 100 years!  LOL
Lets start an on-line group to complain about radio, and then TV, and then all the cars that the blind can't drive  or planes we can't fly yet! LOL

Thanks giving is a few days away, maybe it's time to be a little more thankful for what we have been blessed with rather than focused on what we feel entitled to have that we haven't received.

Mike in SC






At 12:09 PM 11/20/2018, you wrote:
minority

Then sit down, write your feedback to skype directly and not here. We have already heard it. If you you don't like it there is always zoom or the delete key. You tend to sound like a broken record and we are starting to not like it. You in this case and on this list are the minority as you are I hink the only one who is hating skype and its new ways. Either get used to it, get left behind, or leave. I'm speaking as a list member, not a mod.

Take care

On 19 Nov 2018, at 22:10, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes you are right. We are a minority and we will always be disadvantaged because of this. This is what I am saying. But this doesn't mean that we shouldn't say this just because we can't change it.
Nothing will be changed in our favour if we all would continue to pretend that it is all right when it is not all right for all of us.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Oliver
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

that's not my point at all. in fact, you know what? forget it.

I'm done. Time and Time again, people have given you solutions and whatnot and other feedback to help you improve your efficiency with Skype, and you still complain that it is worse than what you had. build a bridge, get over it, The new Skype is here to stay, and no amount of belly aching on your part nor anybody else's will extend the life of Skype Classic. Microsoft have put it to bed, and rightly so. We, whether you like to admit it or not, are a minority, and we do not affect a major corperation's bottom line as much as we'd all wish we could, save for those to whom products are specifically designed and marketed towards us.

Whenever I see an email from you regarding Skype, it is a never ending litany of charges against it's ease of use, that it's worse than what you had, it's less accessible, it's less efficient, it's this, it's that, or it's the other.


That is why I say you should expend that energy you put in to thinking up and cmposing that litany of charges, in to learning Skype or whatever varients thereof, and actually be constructive and positive, instead of negative and disruptive.


We've heard every single complaint you've raised before, and reitterating them here, is not going to change what currently is. If you feel that strongly about it, contact the MS Disability Access Desk and kindly present them with your arguments.

*SMH*


On 20/11/2018 07:42, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.".
 
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years, but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for me.
 
Don't think that all the people use the applications the same way you use them.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: Shaun Oliver
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.


Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.


On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: John Holcomb II
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter


Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

Sarah k Alawami
 

Agreed. So sit down, compose your rants to the skype team as I have stated before and see where it gets you. If it gets you nowhere then there is always the door as my professors have said.

On 20 Nov 2018, at 0:07, Shaun Oliver wrote:

100% more effort and time? Really?


How much effort and time do you put in to composing the emails you do finding every negative thing you can? that's wasted energy and effort that would have been better spent on learning something, or better yet, composing missives to the developers and entering in to civil discourse with them so you can see the improvements you'd like taking place.


On 20/11/2018 16:57, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I'm also tired to explain you that not all the people have the same needs from the same applications, because it seems that it is hard for you to understand.
 
Pressing 2 keys instead of one takes 100% more effort and time, so yes, is not OK for everybody.
If something is not perfect, we should accept it as is, but we should also agree that is not perfect and don't pretend that it is perfect and we should tell only good things about it.
 
If you say that you are so tired, then I'd have a recommendation for you... instead of telling me to shut up, just because I don't have the same preferences as yours. Why don't you shut up instead if it is so hard for you to understand?
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending on your screenreader, then you can type away.

It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut up.


On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be faster to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the web interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't memorize that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this fast without waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they can see the entire window, they can see the context very fast.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs

I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.

On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
 
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
 
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM
Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs