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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Shaun Oliver
again, this is where your quick nav keys for web interaction come in to play. because you simply press e to enter your edit field, and you're there. then tap your space bar to go in to forms or brows mode, depending on your screenreader, then you can type away. It really is not rocket science, and I'm really getting tired of you knit picking every single thing you can and finding every single reason you can to decry not only skype, but the tireless work both developers and end-users have done to get it where it is today. I'm sorry, but either put up, or shut up.
On 20/11/2018 07:38, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Doug Lee
I can't answer that question with authority because I haven't asked anyone for details. My guess, though, is that some people prefer a virtual cursor initially because everything can be seen that way regardless of tab order.
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Another possible incentive for this view is the whole-page Find feature, Ctrl+F or Ins+Ctrl+F... though I'm not sure how long that feature will survive because of Edge and an apparent trend away from granting screen readers full and rapid access to all content at once. There are reasons for this issue, but they stray beyond the focus of this list.
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 11:03:48PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sounds good. Why are there people that don't prefer to do this? Are there any disadvantages? I see as the single reason for not preferring this if some content is presented as text in the HTML document and if that text would be lost when reading with virtual cursor off. And yes, if Skype presents some text this way, it is a reason why I consider it bad. If it doesn't do that, it might be acceptable. --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@dlee.org> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs My scripts do, in fact, turn off the virtual PC cursor by default; you can -- Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com "You must let me try, for a true soldier does not admit defeat before the battle." --Helen Keller (in a letter to the president of Radcliffe College)
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Octavian Rasnita
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"Octavien, if you put as much energy
in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing
to complain about.".
I already told you that this is not true. I put a lot of
efforts in learning to use Windows 7, and I use it every day in the last years,
but I still consider it worse and less accessible than Windows XP.
After I will learn to use Skype 8 I will be able to use it
very well, but that "very well" would still be worse than using Skype 7 for
me.
Don't think that all the people use the applications the
same way you use them.
--Octavian
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Octavian Rasnita
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Yes, that's true. In some cases it might be faster
to navigate in the web interface, but the problem I see is that the web
interface is not standard, and anytime can appear something new in that
interface, advertising, a link there, a button elsewhere, so we can't memorize
that we need to press tab twice and then enter and then do this fast without
waiting for screen reader to speak. I prefer the interfaces that never change
depending on context. For sighted it is not a problem because they can see the
entire window, they can see the context very fast.
--Octavian
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Octavian Rasnita
Sounds good. Why are there people that don't prefer to do this? Are there any disadvantages?
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I see as the single reason for not preferring this if some content is presented as text in the HTML document and if that text would be lost when reading with virtual cursor off. And yes, if Skype presents some text this way, it is a reason why I consider it bad. If it doesn't do that, it might be acceptable. --Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@dlee.org> To: <skypeenglish@groups.io> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs My scripts do, in fact, turn off the virtual PC cursor by default; you can turn it back on as you wish.
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Shaun Oliver
so do I, on both platforms, windows and mac. IOS and android, well, that's a whole other ballgame, but, it's certainly better than it ever was.
Octavien, if you put as much energy in to learning the new skype as you do complaining about it, you'd have nothing to complain about.
On 20/11/2018 05:54, Sarah k Alawami
wrote:
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
I don't mind the web inerface, in fact, I find myself navigating a lot faster in the web interface than the older interface but thats just me.
On 19 Nov 2018, at 9:49, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
John Holcomb II
My 7 is still working, although I got 8 working ok enough on my windows 10 2006 laptop. Ok enough for what I use it for.
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 12:49 PM To: skypeenglish@groups.io Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface. This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Lino Morales
I hope these changes I’m about to read will come to Skype for Windows 10 as well. They need some work. Its usable, but their certain things NVDA doesn’t read well. An aside here. Does anyone have problems with Skype 8 and JAWS 2019? With NVDA I’m able to use it like a web page with my arrow keys to move around, but not so much with JAWS and Narrator and this is with Doug’s electron scripts. Any thoughts?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> on behalf of John Holcomb II <jhii926@...>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 12:29:28 PM To: skypeenglish@groups.io Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Doug Lee
My scripts do, in fact, turn off the virtual PC cursor by default; you can turn it back on as you wish.
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Not everyone prefers this approach for Electron apps, I find; and the stock FS scripts for Skype 8 do not do this.
On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 07:49:06PM +0200, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Any improvement is good, but these are small improvements while bigger issues will never be solved. The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web interface. This issue might be worked around if the scripts will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor, and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way. The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon. --Octavian ----- Original Message ----- From: [1]John Holcomb II To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 7:29 PM Subject: [skypeenglish] New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs [3]https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvemen ts-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twit ter References 1. mailto:jhii926@gmail.com 2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io 3. https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter 4. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/3519 5. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs 6. mailto:orasnita@gmail.com?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20New%20accessibility%20improvements%20in%20Skype%208.0%20%7C%20Skype%20Blogs 7. https://groups.io/mt/28243551/409874 8. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post 9. http://www.dlee.org/skype/ 10. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874 11. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io 12. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged -- Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com "It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper." --Rod Serling
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Re: New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
Octavian Rasnita
Any improvement is good, but these are small
improvements while bigger issues will never be solved.
The biggest issue: Skype 8 uses a web
interface.
This issue might be worked around if the scripts
will turn the virtual buffer off automaticly and it will use only the PC cursor,
and of course, if this way Skype will be fully accessible this way.
The best news is that for the moment Skype 7 still
works. Too bad that it will probably stop working soon.
--Octavian
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New accessibility improvements in Skype 8.0 | Skype Blogs
John Holcomb II
https://blogs.skype.com/news/2018/10/31/new-accessibility-improvements-in-skype-8-0/?utm_content=79383788&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
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Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151
Doug Lee
Aha! This I can work with - it means the mrw script is compiled with a JAWS version that produced a jsb that you can't use. That probably means that the mrw scripts don't work below JAWS 16 after all, but I didn't know it
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because I can't run JAWS 15 here anymore. I have uploaded an update. Please download and try again from http://www.dlee.org/mrw/
On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 01:42:17PM -0500, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Script load error. The mrw/freedom scientific jsb is not the proper version; something like that. I couldn't copy and paste it. On 16/11/2018 1:34 p.m., Doug Lee wrote: Can you let us know the actual message you get from mrw on your system? -- Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com No one alive is beyond hope; every second of life is a chance. (08/29/02)
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Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151
Jerry Pryde
Script load error.
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The mrw/freedom scientific jsb is not the proper version; something like that. I couldn't copy and paste it.
On 16/11/2018 1:34 p.m., Doug Lee wrote:
Can you let us know the actual message you get from mrw on your system?
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Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151
Doug Lee
Can you let us know the actual message you get from mrw on your system?
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On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 01:21:18PM -0500, Jerry Pryde wrote:
The MRW scripts don't work here with jaws 15 and windows 7. It seems there's something not quite right with JAWS. It says something to that effect on installation. On 15/11/2018 11:22 a.m., Doug Lee wrote: 15.0 is the minimum version of JAWS that should be supported; so yes, they should work there. I probably never tested the mrw scripts under JAWS 15 though. -- Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com "Innovation is hard to schedule." -- Dan Fylstra
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Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151
Jerry Pryde
That's possible.
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The odd thing is, the scripts for Skype worked perfectly all day Wednesday. Only yesterday, they stopped.
On 16/11/2018 1:30 p.m., John Holcomb II wrote:
Maybe you need to do a reinstall of jaws.
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Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151
John Holcomb II
Maybe you need to do a reinstall of jaws.
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-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 1:21 PM To: skypeenglish@groups.io Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151 The MRW scripts don't work here with jaws 15 and windows 7. It seems there's something not quite right with JAWS. It says something to that effect on installation. On 15/11/2018 11:22 a.m., Doug Lee wrote: 15.0 is the minimum version of JAWS that should be supported; so yes, they should work there. I probably never tested the mrw scripts under JAWS 15 though.
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Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151
Jerry Pryde
The MRW scripts don't work here with jaws 15 and windows 7.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
It seems there's something not quite right with JAWS. It says something to that effect on installation.
On 15/11/2018 11:22 a.m., Doug Lee wrote:
15.0 is the minimum version of JAWS that should be supported; so yes, they should work there. I probably never tested the mrw scripts under JAWS 15 though.
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Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151
Doug Lee
Yes.
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On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 08:56:30AM -0500, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Doug: The MRW scripts: Do they work with windows 7? On 15/11/2018 11:22 a.m., Doug Lee wrote: 15.0 is the minimum version of JAWS that should be supported; so yes, they should work there. I probably never tested the mrw scripts under JAWS 15 though. -- Doug Lee dgl@dlee.org http://www.dlee.org Level Access doug.lee@LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com "The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself." --Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Scripts for skype 7.0.4.0.151
Jerry Pryde
Doug:
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The MRW scripts: Do they work with windows 7?
On 15/11/2018 11:22 a.m., Doug Lee wrote:
15.0 is the minimum version of JAWS that should be supported; so yes, they should work there. I probably never tested the mrw scripts under JAWS 15 though.
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