Date   

Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra

Sarah k Alawami
 

So you also don’t have the problem the person is having in placing calls? Yeah works here for me. Either somethingn is wrong with ther skype or their keyboard is braking or something. I hope they can get it fixed.

On 11 Aug 2018, at 9:11, adrian via Groups.Io wrote:

I love the new skype I find it easy to use on the Mac.

On Aug 11, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Sarah k Alawami marrie12@... wrote:

No, no bug. I hit enter on my student’s chat, hit command shift r and the thing went to make a call and it worked. We had our class. Command shift h did the same thing, but hung up the call. Really rocking this new skype.

You might want to try resetting skype all-together with clean my mac or some other software like that. Then try again. Tre might be a file that’s gone bad. On 11 Aug 2018, at 7:14, Michele Barbi wrote:

Quite strange, unless there is a bug with Skype 8.27 for Mac which I did not test myself but I’ll do soon. Other thing you can do is, disregard the edit box and try pressing cmd+shift+r anyway. Bye! Barbuz


Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra

adrian
 

I love the new skype I find it easy to use on the Mac.

On Aug 11, 2018, at 10:02 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

No, no bug. I hit enter on my student’s chat, hit command shift r and the thing went to make a call and it worked. We had our class. Command shift h did the same thing, but hung up the call. Really rocking this new skype.


You might want to try resetting skype all-together with clean my mac or some other software like that. Then try again. Tre might be a file that’s gone bad.
On 11 Aug 2018, at 7:14, Michele Barbi wrote:

Quite strange, unless there is a bug with Skype 8.27 for Mac which I did not test myself but I’ll do soon.
Other thing you can do is, disregard the edit box and try pressing cmd+shift+r anyway.
Bye!
Barbuz


Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra

Sarah k Alawami
 

No, no bug. I hit enter on my student’s chat, hit command shift r and the thing went to make a call and it worked. We had our class. Command shift h did the same thing, but hung up the call. Really rocking this new skype.

You might want to try resetting skype all-together with clean my mac or some other software like that. Then try again. Tre might be a file that’s gone bad. On 11 Aug 2018, at 7:14, Michele Barbi wrote:

Quite strange, unless there is a bug with Skype 8.27 for Mac which I did not test myself but I’ll do soon. Other thing you can do is, disregard the edit box and try pressing cmd+shift+r anyway. Bye! Barbuz


Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra

Michele Barbi
 

Quite strange, unless there is a bug with Skype 8.27 for Mac which I did not test myself but I’ll do soon.
Other thing you can do is, disregard the edit box and try pressing cmd+shift+r anyway.
Bye!
Barbuz


Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra

Joseph Hudson <jhud7789@...>
 

Michelle, I really tried that., And it would take me right back to the Chatfield. My next thing is to just try to use Skype for web

On Aug 10, 2018, at 1:07 AM, Michele Barbi <barbi.michele@...> wrote:

Ok guys, I think you need to press enter before making a call in order to open the chat. I noticed that without doing it, starting a call does not work.
Bye!
Barbuz



locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Sarah k Alawami
 

All, I’m locking this thread, the name calling and putting either other down is getting a bit out of hand. I know that we all have our opinions and I’m fine with that but I was hoping we could all moderate ourselves. I see now that I was mistaken. So any further discussion at least for this topic is done and over with.

Your right now irritated moderator


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On 9 Aug 2018, at 12:58, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can be partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do a certain thing.
 
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and brain.
 
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.
 
The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all. :)
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the interface lightning fast. They work well.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.


On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
 
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)
 
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
 
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
 
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not be important at all.
 
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
 
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it better for me.
 
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our different needs and preferences.
 
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".
 
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.
 
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
 
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.
 
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment


On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


<

<


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

João nuno antunes
 

octavian, you'll need to use skype 8 soon enough


Às 8:12 de 10-08-2018, Octavian Rasnita escreveu:
I see you are speaking about respect in the same phrases where you swear a lot. If I don't like a screen reader and I tell this, it doesn't mean disrespect for that screen reader. It is surely very good for others, but I just don't like it. That's all.
 
Or in your book is acceptable only the preference of those who have the same preferences as yours?
 
Sarah said that She likes Skype 8 because it is good for her and I said that I don't like it because it is not good for me, and I also explained why.
This doesn't mean that She is wrong, because I'm sure that for her it is OK. But this doesn't mean that it should be the same for everyone.
 
You really show disrespect by using bad words towards somebody that just tells that has other preferences or needs than yours.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

wrong.


utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.


Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to change.


and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my original point.

in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.


Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of two people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable to what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect and is utterly gauche, in my book.

Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.



On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can be partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do a certain thing.
 
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and brain.
 
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.
 
The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all. :)
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the interface lightning fast. They work well.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.


On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
 
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)
 
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
 
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
 
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not be important at all.
 
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
 
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it better for me.
 
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our different needs and preferences.
 
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".
 
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.
 
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
 
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.
 
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment


On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


<



-- 
João Nuno Antunes


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 


"It’s true that we’re not all good at learning new layouts of programs, but, once you’ve got used to Skype 8, whichever version of Windows you use it on, it’s definitely accessible and very usable.".
 
Oh yes, but once we're used to Skype 8, it will appear a new version which will be different, and then somebody else will say that it is not big deal to get used with the new version and so on. :-))
 
It is not a discussion about *learning* to use Skype 8.
Learning how to use it takes literally just a few minutes as Sarah said.
But developing the muscle memory and the speed of using any new interface of a program may take a long time.
Some may also say that it is very easy to learn using the keyboard of a laptop after you used a desktop keyboard a whole life. And yes, it is true, but it takes a much longer time to get used to it and be able to type as fast as you were able to type with the desktop keyboard.
 
And some may say that this is life, that the applications are improved, so we should make the effort to learn the improved version. But can somebody tell what are the real improvements of the new Skype and what are the advantages of using it?
 
Yes you are right. It is a matter of personal preference if we switch from Win 7 to Win 10, but this is because we still have the possibility of choosing. And if somebody chosen Win 7, it means that it is better for them. Unfortunately Microsoft wanted to exempt us from the effort of choosing between Skype versions, no matter which version is better for us. :-)
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: Clare Page
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Hi!

It’s a matter of personal choice whether we upgrade our computers to Windows 10 or not, but, for those of us who are still using Windows 7, Skype 8 works well with it.

It’s true that we’re not all good at learning new layouts of programs, but, once you’ve got used to Skype 8, whichever version of Windows you use it on, it’s definitely accessible and very usable. OK, some features from Skype 7 have gone, but that doesn’t stop Skype 8 form working well.

For this reason, and because we don’t know how much longer Microsoft will allow Skype 7 to keep going, I’m sticking with Skype 8, and I don’t feel the need to downgrade to Skype 7, even though I feel it was slightly better in some ways.

Bye for now, and happy skyping, whichever version you use!

From Clare

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Pete via Groups.Io
Sent: jeudi 9 août 2018 20:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I upgraded from Windows 7 to 10 in 2016, people were spreading stories around that 10 was vastly different, but once I got it I found that I didn’t have to change anything, all the commands I used in 7 still work in 10.

 

Pete H.

 

From: Josephine Hirsch

Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 7:25 PM

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.

 

On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".

 

Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)

 

I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.

 

You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.

 

Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not be important at all.

 

However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.

 

This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it better for me.

 

Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our different needs and preferences.

 

For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Sarah k Alawami

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Sarah k Alawami

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

From: John Holcomb II

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

 


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Clare Page <clare.page@...>
 

Hi!

It’s a matter of personal choice whether we upgrade our computers to Windows 10 or not, but, for those of us who are still using Windows 7, Skype 8 works well with it.

It’s true that we’re not all good at learning new layouts of programs, but, once you’ve got used to Skype 8, whichever version of Windows you use it on, it’s definitely accessible and very usable. OK, some features from Skype 7 have gone, but that doesn’t stop Skype 8 form working well.

For this reason, and because we don’t know how much longer Microsoft will allow Skype 7 to keep going, I’m sticking with Skype 8, and I don’t feel the need to downgrade to Skype 7, even though I feel it was slightly better in some ways.

Bye for now, and happy skyping, whichever version you use!

From Clare

 

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Pete via Groups.Io
Sent: jeudi 9 août 2018 20:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I upgraded from Windows 7 to 10 in 2016, people were spreading stories around that 10 was vastly different, but once I got it I found that I didn’t have to change anything, all the commands I used in 7 still work in 10.

 

Pete H.

 

From: Josephine Hirsch

Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2018 7:25 PM

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.

 

On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".

 

Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)

 

I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.

 

You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.

 

Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not be important at all.

 

However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.

 

This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it better for me.

 

Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our different needs and preferences.

 

For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Sarah k Alawami

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: Sarah k Alawami

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

From: John Holcomb II

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

To: skypeenglish@groups.io

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

 


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 


Well, I had the patience for learning and for practicing programming. I do programming for more than 20 years and I have worked as a programmer as a blind for more than 15 years. But exactly this is the reason why I don't have the time to lose re-learning new things that don't help me to do new things, but just to be able to continue to do the same old things, maybe a little worse.
 
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

oh, I don't know all I'd like to, granted, but I know enough to get by, I'm no software developer by any means, and I find I'm too old to take such a project on, lol. not that 43 is overly old, but I haven't the head for programming nor do I have the patients for it.



On 10/08/2018 08:54, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun:
You know more about the high tech side of things.
All I know is, making the change was not the disaster I expected, or was lead to believe.
So, I’m not really concerned either way.
A little help along the way, and not much of that, was really great.
But, I am planning for an upgrade in the near future.
Furthermore, I’ve gotten lost of help as it is just reading the threads.
So, Thank you all.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

that's not really a fair comparison, as there were drastic changes between all of those, but win7, win8 win8.1 and win10, the core comands haven't changed much at all. interface wise, there's some changes, but, they are not insurmountable.

 


On 10/08/2018 08:30, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

I also learned that from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows 2000 to XP to Vista to Windows 7 wasn't easy, but it took a while to figure the commands on each OS.


On 8/9/2018 5:52 PM, Jerry Pryde wrote:
Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 






locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 

"NVDA gives you a better overview from a sighted person's perspective as
to what's on the screen and, from a developer stand point as to the
structure and window layout of an application.".

Regarding the structure of the application, yes, you are right.
It is helpful from a developer point of view.

I needed from NVDA to be able to help me determine the coordinate of the
mouse pointer, find the shape of the mouse arrow, to be able to help me
click with the mouse, then drag and drop in another coordinate on screen etc.
But this was not possible in past. I asked other NVDA users, and in past I
also asked on NVDA mailing list, but I got no answers about how I can do
these things, so I assumed it was not possible. And in past there were also applications that were not
accessible with NVDA. This made me prefer JAWS.
I'm sure most users don't need these things, so NVDA is surely very OK for
them, but if I just tell that I have other preferences it doesn't mean that
I don't have respect for NVDA.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:22 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com


maybe, but discounting one thing over another, is wrong in my book, I
don't discount jaws, even though as a personal preference, I refuse to use
it. that does not mean to say I am any less competent for using jaws as
opposed to NVDA or whatever else might be out there.

at their core, their basic functionality is the same. and in reality, NVDA
gives you a better overview from a sighted person's perspective as to
what's on the screen and, from a developer stand point as to the structure
and window layout of an application.


JAWS has only recently begun to do this, where as NVDA have been doing it
for years. as has voiceover on the mac.


Yes it comes down to personal preference, and yes, quite a lot of things
both from myself and octavien could have been worded much better, however,
on the whole, complaining for complainign sake, be it about skype or the
underlying OS or the trials and tribulations in the operation thereof.



On 10/08/2018 08:35, Doug Lee wrote:
I honestly don't see, in Octavian's post, anything I could reasonably
describe as:

- "Disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference." The
"JAWS, not NVDA" remark read, to me, as simply a statement of
practicality. Rewritten, I would put it, "I would likely get used to it
if it were quicker to
use with JAWS. (I'm not an NVDA user, so the NVDA efficiency in this
app won't affect me much.)"

- "Disparaging remarks and commentary." The above remark is the only one
that I could make seem so, and only after your response made me look
twice.

- "Shooting down someone else's viewpoint." Frankly I would say you're
doing more "shooting" than anyone at the moment. I can read, "utterly,
incontrovertibly wrong," thus. :-)

You refer to a Blinux community history that is 15 years old. Many on
this list were probably not around for that, due to age or happenstance;
my case surely being the latter. :-) That history probably gives you a
view of the
poster you're aiming at here, but that view is not shared, at least by
the same cause, by many others here unless I miss my mark.

The advice for users to know their screen readers is of course wise.
Personal preferences aside, I prove that Skype 8 is usable by the fact
that I've used nothing else for months. I do disable the virtual cursor
in
JAWS, Browse mode in NVDA, most of the time though; so I question the
view that web navigation is the best approach for Skype 8 and other
similar Electron apps. But it is *a* means of managing much of the app,
for those who
wish to do it that way.

Finally, I humbly suggest that the best response to the widely varying
degree of screen reader familiarity out there is education more than
vituperation. You are right that some resist change, new learning, etc. -
in all
communities and not just ours - but that is, really, a subject outside
the scope of a Skype-specific mailing list.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:08:21AM +0930, Shaun Oliver wrote:
wrong.

utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.

Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect
towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit
died
years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent
among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to
change.

and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was
and
is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my
original point.

in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web
page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just
about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8,
included.

Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary
because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and
set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might
be
to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or
preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of
two
people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable
to
what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect
and
is utterly gauche, in my book.

Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit
here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any
favors.

On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can
be
partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to
do
a certain thing.



If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means
that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time
and
brain.



I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.

If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think
I
might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.



The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all.
:)



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream
how
to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if
you
use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around
the interface lightning fast. They work well.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no
offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10
is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put
their
foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are
used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".

Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are
the
same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)

I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with
some
applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it
with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.

You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and
I
want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered
to
the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with
the
style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.

Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad,
I
refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use
numpad
at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this
might
not be important at all.

However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't
just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.

This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't
make
it better for me.

Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.

For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think
how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need
to
stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be
able
to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to
start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11
to
open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just
muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very
fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without
thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of
working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want
as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Sarah k Alawami

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don't believe me go to my youtube page. I can
get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that
Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7
doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for
the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new
helpful
things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used
for sending chat messages from programs.

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype
users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use
Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the
one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more
friendly
with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when
it
is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most
used
combination.

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what
I
read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so
this
is also not very useful.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Sarah k Alawami

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give
it
a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their
act together.


From: [7]skypeenglish@groups.io [[8]mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: [9]skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


This is really good news.

It sounds like they've gotten some seriously negative feedback on the
new version.

I've even heard from people with sight that don't like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.




From: [10]John Holcomb II

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

To: [11]skypeenglish@groups.io

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com



[12]https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16
5295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day


[13][LINK]

Virus-free. [14]www.avast.com

<


References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:marrie12@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:marrie12@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
10. mailto:@JHRadio
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
12.
https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day
13.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
14.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
15. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/2953
16.
mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
17.
mailto:blindman75@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
18. https://groups.io/mt/24211481/409874
19. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
20. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
21. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
22. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
23. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 


Well, I believe you.
Maybe for you was a false alarm, but for me it was not a false alarm at all.
TextPad works much much worse under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, some lines of text are skipped, some strange pieces of text are spoken by JAWS at the beginning of some lines, I also tested many other editors and none of them have the features I need, the MS DOS prompt is not read as well as under Windows XP in some cases etc.
And these are not things I need rarely, but permanently in my day by day work.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun and John.
 
Absolutely correct.
Frankly, I thought changing from XP to Windows-7 would be difficult; Two Words: False alarm.
Like you, John, I tend to stick with what works, until it doesn’t.
Looking at what Doug, Sarah and others have said, I’m sure I’ll figure things out with the new Skype, with or without Windows 10.
Making the change from XP was Easy.  I expect the same when the time comes for w-10.
Things work a little different here in Canada when it comes to upgrades with special software.
Difficult, but not impossible.
I’ll catch up in due time.  You’re both right.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
 

and thank you john, you therefore prove my point, you know how to use it, but by choice, you don't wish to, and that is your choice, which I respect.

 

you are neither complaining for complaining sake, nor are you being contrary and fighting change just because you prefer the status quo. again, that, I respect.

 


On 10/08/2018 07:47, John Holcomb II wrote:

I’ve never had anyone who  I upgraded to Windows 10 have any issues.

And while I don’t use W10 as my primary driver, its close enough to windows 7 to work just fine. In fact, narrator might be all some people need. And if any screene reader is going to work great with skype over anything else, it’ll be first party hardware.

Also I think Doug wouldn’t be putting out  scripts and NVDA addons if skype did not work with them.

And if something for some reason didn’t work, he’d be the first person to tell us here.

Now I’ve e not upgraded my  Skype because I choose not to. Not because I think  it won’t work. There’s a difference.

Just like I choose to  stay on Windows 7. For my main driver.

But if someone slapped Skype 8 and W 10 in front of me and said here are scripts, you have no choice, I’m sure I could make it work. I’ve been using computers and screne readers and know how to use the curcers to  get around screen if nothing else.

But all and all, I trust Doug  who made the scripts that he wouldn’t put out a   halfassed unworkable product.

John

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io On Behalf Of Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 6:07 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.

 

Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.

 

Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!

 

Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.

 

Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.

 

 

On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

 

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)

Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.

It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.

It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

 

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

 

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

 

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

 

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment

 

On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

<

 



locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 

I have a Skype 7 that has multiple chat windows and I don't have any problem
with the resources.
From Andre's message it looks that there are more problems with the consumed
resources in Skype 8 with a single window than with Skype 7 with multiple
windows.

"as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need them.
incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them".

The incoming chats are read automaticly only when Skype application is the
active application.
Plus that in many cases, some people may need to re-read for many times the
chat messages. If somebody uses Skype just for saying hello and asking about
weather, then he might not need to re-read it the chat messages, but there
are people that use Skype for work and they might need to be able to
re-read, plus copy some text from the messages etc.

"customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite
plainly.".

I also don't have any problems with Skype's sounds, but why do you think
that this should be true for everybody?
If something is OK for you it doesn't mean that it should be also OK for the others.
And if the others say that something is not OK, it doesn't mean that they don't respect your opinion. They just say that for them is not OK and that's all.

"as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what
is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource
hog.".

I don't understand this statement. What has the API to do with the resources
used by the application?
The API should be able to do what the graphical interface is able to do, but
without using resources for the GUI.
Of course that if somebody uses the API too hard, and sends lots of messages or do other
hard work, then yes, the resources can be affected, but the usage can be
limited by the API itself.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com


separate chat windows? really that wastes more resources.

on windows, press alt+1 and you're in the conversation list, and by
default, it's set to organise by time, so you can easily find the
conversation you need to interact with.

as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need
them. incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them
easily enough.

customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly.
as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what
is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a
resource hog.


it really is of no consequense and while both sighted and blidn people are
complaining bitterly about it, I've yet to find a drawback with this
latest interface.



On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I
know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group
chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what
to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.



locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 

Thank you Doug. You seem to understand better my English. :-)

I have nothing against NVDA. I like the fact that it is open source. I know that it may be better in some cases than JAWS.
I just prefer JAWS these days for what I need to do in present, but this
doesn't mean that I will never prefer NVDA for sure.

You said that the virtual cursor can be turned off in Skype 8 and the app
will work better. In that case it won't work like a web app and it might be
a little bit better. If this is true, then I also question the need for
using it as a web-based app.

Anyway, thank you again for your great work, because without it, Skype would have been much less friendlier than it is, no matter if it used native Windows objects or a web interface.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See
Another Day - Thurrott.com


I honestly don't see, in Octavian's post, anything I could reasonably
describe as:

- "Disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference." The
"JAWS, not NVDA" remark read, to me, as simply a statement of
practicality. Rewritten, I would put it, "I would likely get used to it if
it were quicker to
use with JAWS. (I'm not an NVDA user, so the NVDA efficiency in this app
won't affect me much.)"

- "Disparaging remarks and commentary." The above remark is the only one
that I could make seem so, and only after your response made me look
twice.

- "Shooting down someone else's viewpoint." Frankly I would say you're
doing more "shooting" than anyone at the moment. I can read, "utterly,
incontrovertibly wrong," thus. :-)

You refer to a Blinux community history that is 15 years old. Many on this
list were probably not around for that, due to age or happenstance; my
case surely being the latter. :-) That history probably gives you a view
of the
poster you're aiming at here, but that view is not shared, at least by the
same cause, by many others here unless I miss my mark.

The advice for users to know their screen readers is of course wise.
Personal preferences aside, I prove that Skype 8 is usable by the fact
that I've used nothing else for months. I do disable the virtual cursor in
JAWS, Browse mode in NVDA, most of the time though; so I question the view
that web navigation is the best approach for Skype 8 and other similar
Electron apps. But it is *a* means of managing much of the app, for those
who
wish to do it that way.

Finally, I humbly suggest that the best response to the widely varying
degree of screen reader familiarity out there is education more than
vituperation. You are right that some resist change, new learning, etc. -
in all
communities and not just ours - but that is, really, a subject outside the
scope of a Skype-specific mailing list.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 08:08:21AM +0930, Shaun Oliver wrote:
wrong.

utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.

Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect
towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died
years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent
among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to
change.

and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and
is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my
original point.

in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web
page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just
about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.

Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary
because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and
set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be
to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or
preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of two
people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable to
what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect and
is utterly gauche, in my book.

Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit
here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.

On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can be
partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do
a certain thing.



If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means
that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and
brain.



I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.

If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I
might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.



The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all.
:)



--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [1]Sarah k Alawami

To: [2]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how
to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you
use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around
the interface lightning fast. They work well.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no
offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10
is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their
foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are
used to it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".

Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the
same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)

I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less
accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some
applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it
with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.

You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I
don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I
want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to
the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen
without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the
style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.

Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the
single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I
refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad
at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might
not be important at all.

However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't
just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.

This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as
Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make
it better for me.

Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our
different needs and preferences.

For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think
how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to
stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able
to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to
start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to
open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just
muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very
fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is
like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without
thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of
working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want
as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [3]Sarah k Alawami

To: [4]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about
maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my
youtube streams. If you don't believe me go to my youtube page. I can
get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that
Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7
doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for
the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful
things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used
for sending chat messages from programs.

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype
users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use
Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the
one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly
with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it
is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used
combination.

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I
read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet,
and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this
is also not very useful.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----

From: [5]Sarah k Alawami

To: [6]skypeenglish@groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM

Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100
percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it
a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their
act together.


From: [7]skypeenglish@groups.io [[8]mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: [9]skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives
to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


This is really good news.

It sounds like they've gotten some seriously negative feedback on the
new version.

I've even heard from people with sight that don't like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.




From: [10]John Holcomb II

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

To: [11]skypeenglish@groups.io

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com


[12]https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/16
5295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day


[13][LINK]

Virus-free. [14]www.avast.com

<



References

1. mailto:marrie12@...
2. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
3. mailto:marrie12@...
4. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
5. mailto:marrie12@...
6. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
7. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
8. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
9. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
10. mailto:@JHRadio
11. mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io
12.
https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day
13.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
14.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
15. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/message/2953
16.
mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
17.
mailto:blindman75@...?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bskypeenglish%5D%20Microsoft%20Backtracks%2C%20Classic%20Skype%20Lives%20to%20See%20Another%20Day%20-%20Thurrott.com
18. https://groups.io/mt/24211481/409874
19. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/post
20. http://www.dlee.org/skype/
21. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/editsub/409874
22. mailto:skypeenglish+owner@groups.io
23. https://groups.io/g/skypeenglish/leave/defanged

--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them
to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 

Well Sarah, this is really bad news. The "so I do miss a lot there" is not acceptable for me at all, because I can't tell my boss "sorry boss", but I missed your urgent requirement you gave me yesterday. This kind of problems can make me lose my job.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


Actually in my case incomign chats are not read at least wiht nvda. They are when I’m in the skype window but on windows or mac they are not when outside so I do miss a lot there.

Take care

On 9 Aug 2018, at 16:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

separate chat windows? really that wastes more resources.

on windows, press alt+1 and you're in the conversation list, and by default, it's set to organise by time, so you can easily find the conversation you need to interact with.

as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need them. incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them easily enough.

customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.


it really is of no consequense and while both sighted and blidn people are complaining bitterly about it, I've yet to find a drawback with this latest interface.



On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 

Hi Andre,

Very well said. You pointed even more bad things in Skype 8 than me.

Regarding Slack, many people past to Slack because it offers more features, it offers the possibility of integration with many other web sites, it offers an API, so messages can be sent automaticly by applications, while Microsoft disabled even that poor Skype API that was offered in past.

But if you think that MS wants to copy Slack is even worse, because Slack is accessible, but bnot very friendly for the blind. They made some improvements in accessibility after I reported them, but not very fast, and not complete, and not all accessibility complaints were solved yet.

It is bad if MS wants to copy just the interface which is not very friendly for us, but doesn't start by first copying the backend features that makes Slack good.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andre Polykanine" <@Menelion>
To: "Shaun Oliver" <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:49 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


Hello Shaun,
Well, well. You're really a bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype 8 sucks indeed. Not as a piece of software, but as a
*messenger*. See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1. Separate chat windows. Yes, this is important when you have a
separate chat with your boss, another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your company uses Skype for work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage to cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast. Far not. Commpare pressing Alt+Tab with those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM. Skype 7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans rotating at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls. "buy a new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and I'll give you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear that loud old-fashioned phone ringing from my headphones, I know someone wants my
attention in Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4. Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with sighted people, you understand my point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5. Skype 7 has a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons, link previews, user avatars, how to quote messages, what to do on
pressing Enter, and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece of that settings tree which prevents it from being a
professional messenger.
6. Global hotkeys: someone calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word processor, an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately search for a Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7. the main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the last messenger with native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack, maybe they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone imitates Apple's phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are like Apple, we will have billions of users". When Skype was
special and particular, everyone used it just because it was
comfortable both for large businesses and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and its sound quality was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users decreases, and sighted users also complain about Skype 8
interface that is sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great. I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a wrong technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual machine upon another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame them even if they provided an API, but they don't,
unfortunately.

--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Skype: menelion_elensule
Twitter (English only): @AndrePolykanine


------------ Original message ------------
From: Shaun Oliver <blindman75@...>
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Date created: , 1:06:43 AM
Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com


I'm going to comment here, and I'm likely going to not only appear contrary, but, quite harsh, and I make no appology for it. you have been warned.




Firstly, Sarah is right. Skype 8, even though it is still called Skype preview, is very easy to navigate. if you have experience navigating a web style interface, you can navigate skype without issue. If you've yet to at least gain competency in navigating a web interface or similar, then you have nobody to blame but yourself for the issues you're facing navigating Skype 8. I am talking collectively here I am not pointing the finger at any one individual.




Furthermore, the interface is no different under windows7 as it is, under windows 10. As for windows 10 being unstable, Pardon my use of the colorful vernacular, but, bullshit!




Unless you know what you speak of, hold your tongue and if you must offer an oppinion, make it an informed oppinion not filled with supposition and hearsay. Windows10 is quite stable. and as is with any other platform, yes, things break. sometimes majorly when there's an update, but, the same is true of both IOS and android and I might add, MacOSX.




Software developers now not only listen to feedback about accessibility these days, but, they listen to feedback about what's broken and fix it in fairly short order. So have a care how you speak, because unless your oppinions are based on actual provable evidence, you are talking out of the wrong orifice and need to give the other one a go.





On 10/08/2018 02:47, Sarah k Alawami wrote:


Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page.I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:




"just takes geting used to".

Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.

I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.

The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.

I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.

--Octavian


----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah k Alawami
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com




Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:




new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment



On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:





Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.





From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com






This is really good news.


It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.


I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.


Long Live Skype Classic.














From: John Holcomb II


Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM


To: skypeenglish@groups.io


Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com





https://www.thurrott.com/cloud/microsoft-consumer-services/skype/165295/microsoft-backtracks-classic-skype-lives-see-another-day





Virus-free. www.avast.com

<


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Octavian Rasnita
 


I see you are speaking about respect in the same phrases where you swear a lot. If I don't like a screen reader and I tell this, it doesn't mean disrespect for that screen reader. It is surely very good for others, but I just don't like it. That's all.
 
Or in your book is acceptable only the preference of those who have the same preferences as yours?
 
Sarah said that She likes Skype 8 because it is good for her and I said that I don't like it because it is not good for me, and I also explained why.
This doesn't mean that She is wrong, because I'm sure that for her it is OK. But this doesn't mean that it should be the same for everyone.
 
You really show disrespect by using bad words towards somebody that just tells that has other preferences or needs than yours.
 
--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

wrong.


utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.


Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died years ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent among the blinux community about 15 years ago and you have yet to change.


and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and is also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my original point.

in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web page. if you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just about navigate any web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.


Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary because that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and set them against you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be to you, a valid point. shooting down someone else's view point, or preference for screenreader, moreover, shooting down the efforts of two people whose motis operandi is, was, to provide a product comparable to what used to be known as the big three, is the hight of disrespect and is utterly gauche, in my book.

Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit here and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.



On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of different versions of a program can be partially measured by the number of keystrokes and hotkeys needed to do a certain thing.
 
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for example double, it means that the new version is twice as hard to use and consumes more time and brain.
 
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8 from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not NVDA, then yes, I think I might got used to it and consider it better after a time of using it.
 
The ideal application is the one that doesn't need to be used at all. :)
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the interface lightning fast. They work well.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2 hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to it.


On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
 
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things. :-)
 
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen reader under Windows XP.
 
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it. I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one. Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
 
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other people this might not be important at all.
 
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any advantage yet.
 
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this doesn't make it better for me.
 
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on our different needs and preferences.
 
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it farily quickly with nvda.

On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

"just takes geting used to".
 
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps, but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can be used for sending chat messages from programs.
 
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac related.
 
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype 7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this is the most used combination.
 
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the next update, so this is also not very useful.
 
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used to, so give it a chance.

On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:

new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with screenreaders regardless if you have any type of impairment


On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:

Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told them to get their act together.

 

From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jerry Pryde
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 8:33 a.m.
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

This is really good news.

It sounds like they’ve gotten some seriously negative feedback on the new version.

I’ve even heard from people with sight that don’t like it.

Long Live Skype Classic.

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM

Subject: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

 

 

Virus-free. www.avast.com


<



Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra

Michele Barbi
 

Ok guys, I think you need to press enter before making a call in order to open the chat. I noticed that without doing it, starting a call does not work.
Bye!
Barbuz


Re: Issue with making a call on the latest version of Skype using Mac OS high Sierra

Joseph Hudson <jhud7789@...>
 

Well unfortunately none of the commands work though off to look for advice from other individuals. Because all it does went to Brandy she had a call, is as it says missed call on the other persons account. Anytime I go to initiate a call but then I can going initiate a call on my iPhone and it works perfectly fine. So something is wrong. The only thing that's not cooperating, is the volume setting. I turned all all the way up to 10, and it goes right back down to zero. So Let's see anything that's wrong.

On Aug 9, 2018, at 10:54 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Works here. I use it all the time. In fact I’ve ben updated to skype 8.27 for a few days now and didn’t know it. Command shift r works every single time.. Keep trying I guess.

On 9 Aug 2018, at 18:55, Joseph Hudson wrote:

Command shift our did not work.
Joseph Hudson

Email
jhud7789@...
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89
facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7789@...
And now finally, if none of the above options work well for you. I have a room on zoom as well. The link and instructions to join won't be below

Hi there,

Joseph Hudson is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Topic: Joseph Hudson's Zoom Meeting
Time: Apr 10, 2018 10:30 PM Central Time (US and Canada)

Join from PC, Mac, Linux, iOS or Android: https://zoom.us/j/502788655

Or iPhone one-tap :
US: +16699006833,,502788655# or +16468769923,,502788655#
Or Telephone:
Dial(for higher quality, dial a number based on your current location):
US: +1 669 900 6833 or +1 646 876 9923
Meeting ID: 502 788 655
International numbers available: https://zoom.us/u/dkZ76Qvjp


On Aug 9, 2018, at 12:19 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

You can hit command shift r then swit h it to a video call later I believe.

Take care

On 9 Aug 2018, at 0:10, Joseph Hudson wrote:

Hi Mac users, I've taken the plans, and reinstalled the latest version of Skype on my MacBook Pro. I want to go call one of my friends on Skype, and every time I hit the audio call or video call button, it takes me right back into the chat window. What is going on. I even tried to call Skype test call service and it doesn't even work. If anybody wants to try it with me. Skype is the following.

joseph.hudson89


locked Re: Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com

Shaun Oliver
 

that's why I turn notifications on, but, to be fair, that is spirratic at best

On 10/08/2018 13:19, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Actually in my case incomign chats are not read at least wiht nvda. They are when I’m in the skype window but on windows or mac they are not when outside so I do miss a lot there.

Take care

On 9 Aug 2018, at 16:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

separate chat windows? really that wastes more resources.

on windows, press alt+1 and you're in the conversation list, and by default, it's set to organise by time, so you can easily find the conversation you need to interact with.

as for having quick keys to review conversation chats, you don't need them. incoming chats are read automatically, and you can review them easily enough.

customisable sounds? not an issue. the ringing sound I hear quite plainly. as for an API for external programs to utilise, why? that then turns what is using limited resources in to a resource hog, and nobody likes a resource hog.


it really is of no consequense and while both sighted and blidn people are complaining bitterly about it, I've yet to find a drawback with this latest interface.



On 10/08/2018 08:19, Andre Polykanine wrote:
Hello Shaun,
Well,  well.  You're  really  a  bit too harsh, but OK, let's be harsh
then.
Skype  8  sucks  indeed.  Not  as  a  piece  of  software, but  as  a
*messenger*.  See the difference: a messenger should be fast, light on
CPU  and memory usage, and not only accessible, but usable. I'm a huge
fan of Web technologies myself, but here they are in the wrong place.
So let's list what's missing in Skype 8 comparing to Skype 7:
1.  Separate  chat  windows.  Yes,  this  is important when you have a
separate  chat  with  your  boss,  another one with a project manager,
another one with a group of developers, and a couple personal ones. If
your  company  uses  Skype  for  work, it is a daily scenario. Can you
manage  to  cope with it in Skype electron? Yes, you can, but not that
fast.  Far  not.  Commpare  pressing  Alt+Tab  with  those cumbersome
gestures in a single window.
2. Performance. My PC is quite old, it has a Core I5 CPU and 4 gigs of
RAM.  Skype  7 works like a charm, though with Skype 8 I often have my
fans  rotating  at high speeds, and the app crashes quite often during
calls.  "buy  a  new machine," could you say. For a messenger? I mean,
really?
3. Sounds are not customizable. I still use classic sounds in Skype 7,
and  I'll  give  you a reason for that: when I'm away from my PC and I
hear  that loud old-fashioned  phone  ringing from my headphones,  I  know  someone  wants my
attention  in  Skype. Was it too hard to implement in a newer version?
I'm 100% sure it was not.
4.  Alt+numbers in chats. If you ever talked in a rather crowded group chat
with      sighted     people,     you     understand my     point:
Tab-Shift-Tab-arrow-up-arrow-down just don't work, you miss messages.
5.  Skype  7  has  a plethora of settings, like: show or hide animated
emoticons,  link  previews, user avatars, how  to  quote messages,  what  to do on
pressing  Enter,  and so on, and so forth. Skype 8 left us with a tiny
piece   of   that  settings  tree  which  prevents  it  from being  a
professional messenger.
6.  Global  hotkeys:  someone  calls me while I'm working in an IDE, a
word  processor,  an e-mail client or a sound editor. Do I have to go and
desperately  search  for  a  Skype window to pick up the call? Are you
serious?
7.  the  main interface itself. Again, I don't say it is inaccessible,
but  it is far from being *comfortable* to use. Skype was the only and
the  last  messenger  with  native-like windows, and now Skype 8 came.
Everyone uses Slack these days. Well, Microsoft said, let's do it like
Slack,  maybe  they will come back to Skype? It is the same error when
everyone  imitates  Apple's  phone design by removing home buttons and
headphone jacks in a desperate hope that "if we
are  like  Apple,  we  will  have  billions  of users". When Skype was
special   and  particular,  everyone  used  it  just  because it  was
comfortable  both  for  large  businesses  and for aged people. It was
peer-to-peer, it allowed sending large files, its interface was simple
and  its  sound  quality  was decent. Nowadays however amount of Skype
users  decreases,  and  sighted  users  also  complain  about Skype 8
interface  that  is  sluggish and drains batteries on laptops and cell
phones.
If  they fixed those issues I described, at least partially, it would be
great.  I don't blame them for doing it bad, I blame them for choosing
a  wrong  technology. Electron is not suitable for a messenger, it's a
virtual  machine  upon  another virtual machine, so to say. I wouldn't
blame   them   even   if   they  provided  an  API,  but they  don't,
unfortunately.