Re: help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Shaun Oliver
 

Might it not also be prudent to reach out to Microsoft and address those self same concerns with them? otherwise, they aren't likely to be aware that that functionality has a need, because as helpful as they are, they are still a conglomerate that needs to pay attention to their profit margin. That being said, the fact that they are prepared to listen and hopefully give reasons as to why or why not, is surely no bad thing?

On 5/10/2018 17:41, Brian Hartgen wrote:
Hi to all

I've hesitated a lot in writing on what has proved to be quite a thorny issue, but it is worth making one or two points.

I absolutely agree that Microsoft have made tremendous strides in terms of accessibility enhancements during recent years, both in terms of the Windows operating system and Office in particular. I also agree that, where possible, blind people who are capable of doing so should get to learn a new interface, such as Skype8, and work with what there is in terms of using that accessibility implementation to good effect.

But having visited people training them for 21 years, I am very aware that change does not always come easy. So to people who suggest that not having global keystrokes to answer or disconnect a call etc does not matter a jot, to some people it definitely does. Along with visual impairment, other health-related issues are often present manifesting in great anxiety or fear of the unknown, not to mention people who have lost their sight later in life who often find even simple tasks a challenge.

So yes, while Microsoft have undertaken a good deal of work, I feel it is up to us as access technology companies, including VFO and similar organisations, to reach out to their customers and ask them what they want.

We did exactly this. We decided that Skype8 was something we needed to devote some time and resources to, so I have written some JAWS scripts for one of our products which attempt to at least make the transition from one Skype version to another easier. This includes global hotkeys, reading of text chat messages in the way a person has previously been familiar with, and so on. We're also offering a training course in the use of Skype8.
Note this message is by no means a commercial. I am just stating what we are doing and that theoretically enhancements are possible.

Whether I have been successful in assisting people to transition successfully, only time will tell. But the point of my message is that the person originally posting to this list about the need for implementing enhanced functionality other than the default does have a very valid case. I would personally like to see VFO, (or whatever the new name of the company is now - I can ever remember it), and NVDA developers, build such functionality into their respective products by default. Skype8 is obviously something people need to migrate to if they wish to continue using this method of communication. To show my support, I will be at least writing to VFO today to that effect.

Brian Hartgen

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: 05 October 2018 08:44
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

The accessibility is the final result seen by the user, not the features offered by the operating system's manufacturer, because if the screen reader manufacturer can't keep up with the changes, the final result might be worse for the final user and nobody will appear as guilty.
As examples, MS DOS prompt and TextPad editor are less accessible under Windows 7 than under Windows XP, even now after many years, when Windows 7 is almost dead.
This decreased the productivity of the blind users that used them, with no other benefit, so it can't be considered something good.

Windows 7 became better than XP for audio editting and became more secure, so it this is something good, but it also became worse for some other things. We should accept that what is good is good, but also that what is bad is bad, and we can't simply say that what is bad it doesn't matter because this or that thing doesn't affect us.

Now speaking about Skype 8 for Windows, I am still trying to see what are its advantages, what is it better than Skype 7 for, what it can do what Skype 7 for Windows couldn't do, but I haven't seen any useful thing that can compensate its disadvantages.
I am sure that it is very good for some people, but this doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody, or that only those who find it useful should express their opinions.

--Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaun Oliver" <blindman75@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I'm sorry but I must interject at this juncture.

While this isn't a forum for discussing the merits of XP VS. win7 VS. Win8
VS. win10, etc, I should like to point out that in terms of overall
accessibility, things have only improved, with each above mentioned
itteration of windows.


Just because things aren't in the places you initially found them under
say XP or 7, doesn't mean they aren't there or made inaccessible.


Overall accessibility is still the purview of the app developers
themselves, and they are under no obligation whatsoever, to accomodate
what is essentially a minority group.


Make no mistake my fellow forum members, we, are, a, minority, group. And
while as a collective community we have managed to successfully campaign
for better accessibility overall, we are not about to receive total
accessibility, as there is always going to be developers that will simply
throw the concept in to the too hard basket, simply because it neither
affects their bottom line, nor fits in with their vision, or worse yet,
don't even know it's even there at the click of a button. although, due to
various bits of legislature and programming standards set by what I will
for the sake of the argument call The-Big-Three, Google, Apple and
Microsoft, This is becoming less and less of an issue.


The likes of James Tae, Michael Curren, Joseph Lee and dare I say Jonathan
Mosen and others like them, are good for the promotion of accessibility
needs and the advocating of making life as a whole easier for us as a
community. in spite of my own personal oppinions regarding some of teh
individuals I've mentioned, I cannot deny they have done a great deal for
improving our overall computing experience as a whole.


We cannot micromanage to the point that each individual has something
taylored to shit him or herself, if we did that, we'd never get anything
done, and developers would be overwhelmed with requests and demands to
customise the software just so one person is happier and able to utilise
the software better.


So, with all due respect, kindly remember that the list archives are
public, and with that in mind, please do your utmost to offer up
constructive feedback instead of asking for something that has been stated
time and time again is not easily, if at all doable. Learn the ropes so
that you can then pay it forward to someone else that might be struggling,
and thus we can continue providing good advice and constructive and
helpful hints for those that aren't yet up to our level.



On 5/10/2018 15:29, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
Sarah, you are right, but this is true just for the large public, not for
those who have very specific needs.
You surely don't need to use the command line under Windows, because if
you would need it, you would know that it is worse under Windows 7 when
compared with the one under Windows XP.

And other programs are also less accessible under Windows 7 than under
Windows XP.

If you don't care about the other people needs, it doesn't mean that
those needs don't exist.

If some computer users are bored and like to keep discovering new things,
other users might not have time to spend for nothing for doing that.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2018 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


I have to gree. I recently used narrator to troubleshoot some stuff a
few months ago and it was very very doable. Go microsoft and go skype on
all platforms. It really is a piece of cake to use and a fun and joyful
experience.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 12:36, John Holcomb II wrote:

I think MS should actually be commended on their accessibility with
Skype and their other products.
No company does everything perfect, but if I wanted to right now, I
could walk up to any Windows 10 based computer and use it, and probably
get Skype to work somehow accessibly too! I say somehow as I have not
used narrator and Skype together, but they're all about making first
party software work well, and third party stuff too.

Now how amazing is that?


-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io <skypeenglish@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Shaun Oliver
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 12:41 PM
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.

and by that reasoning, given the archives are public, and searchable by
the internet as a whole, it is therefore, not beyond the realm of
possibility that the afforementioned remarks would, I can say with
almost 100% certainty, find their way back to the vendor that is being
railed against, thus causing very real problems in the long run for
those of us that are stern yet polite when we approach same to discuss
overall improvements to accessibility for various applications we'd
like to make good use of in the future. it is those kinds of comments
and remarks and complaints about how not enough is being done and what
is already there is nowhere near enough that causes devs on the whole
to say, and please excuse my use of the more colorful, even if by
initial only, "F you, we don't want to be bothered with it because it's
too hard." when in reality, gaining accessibility is as much about
attitude as developers willingness to accomodate.

so I am with Sarah 100% on this.



On 5/10/2018 02:03, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Lol. I'm the admin. I have to be nice. Hehahahahaha. I am also working
on my professional tone, which needs a lot of work.

And yes I do agree. One more comment like that from anyone and they
will with out warning be placed on a 1 month moderation. We want to
make the list constructive and these archives by my choice are
public, so let's try and be civil here. If you don't like it, as my
teacher used to say, there's the door. I do not want to moderate the
topic but one more bad apple and it will either be moderated or
locked. You all have ben forewarned.

On 4 Oct 2018, at 9:08, Shaun Oliver wrote:

Thank you Sarah. I would not have even been as nice about it. as it
was, I’d already stated that it won’t happen due to the deprecated
API and unavailability of the SDK.

and really, Joseph, Comments such as to hell with microsoft are the
kinds of comments we could all quite frankly do without, simply
because MS, in recent times, has actually begun to carefully consider
accessibility and implement same, despite the bleeting from the NFB
wanting to keep accessibility firmly within the control of the
blindness community. and really people as a whole, accessibility is
not limited to blind people alone. we do not, nor wil we ever hold
the monopoly on accessibility needs, so I suggest we dispense with
the badmouthing, disparraging remarks, the complaining that this
isn’t predictable or how unfair it is that we’re losing hotkeys that
quite frankly nobody gives a rodent’s rectum about, and just learn
the new interface, build a bridge and get over it.

Sent from Shaun's iPad

On 5 Oct 2018, at 01:31, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I doubt they will, so until and if they do, learn skype 8 and learn
the key strokes, and learn your web keys. If you don't like it not
much you can do but uninstall skype and use zoom or nothing at all.
Harsh, but true in this case.

Take care

On 4 Oct 2018, at 3:14, Joseph Machise wrote:

Clare thanks hope they get GW back again under another name from
Joseph.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clare Page"
<clare.page@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of skype.


Hi!
It's all very well to say that a keystroke such as alt+page up
should be added to the JAWS scripts of Skype 8, but that won't
help users of other screen-readers. I'm not sure that such a
keystroke is necessary anyway.
Doug's way of answering Skype calls seems rather complicated to me
, although that may make seeing who the caller is a bit easier. I
am lucky that the Skype calls I receive are from people I know,
and in most cases I have warning that I am going to receive a
call, so I go into the Skype window in Skype 8, which I tend to
leave open while Skype is running anyway, and press Tab till I
find the Answer button. There's a Decline button too, which comes
before the Answer button while tabbing through the window, so if
you don't want to take the incoming call, you can use that
instead.
If you don't want to keep the Skype window open like I do, you can
minimise it with alt+f4 like you did in older versions of Skype,
and pressing Enter on the Skype icon on your desktop will open the
Skype window again. Since I rarely minimize the Skype window while
my Skype 8 is running, I don't know if an incoming call will make
that window appear, that's why I mentioned how to open it while
Skype is still running.
I hope this helps!
Bye for now!
From Clare

-----Original Message-----
From: skypeenglish@groups.io [mailto:skypeenglish@groups.io] On
Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
Sent: mercredi 3 octobre 2018 18:01
To: skypeenglish@groups.io
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.

Hi Doug,

Can't be made a script that executes these hotkeys, a script
stored in default.jss?
If it would be possible, we could assign a hotkey for it, say
Alt+PgUp, and
one of the problems could be solved.

I hope that it is not a problem that the window uses a web widget,
because that can't be solved.

--Octavian

----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


The plan for taking an incoming call in Skype 8 is this:

1. Make a shortcut key that immediately puts focus on the Skype 8
window.
Do this by assigning a shortcut key, such as Ctrl+Shift+Alt+K, to
the Skype 8 Desktop shortcut.

2. When a call comes in, type your shortcut, tab for caller ID,
then tab to the Answer button and press Space.

This is more keystrokes than Alt+PgUp was, but it is also less
prone to the, "Oh goodness, I did not mean to pick up that call!"
situation. This
situation would be my description of most calls I get, because of
spam calls that are made to my phone number, which I route
through Skype specifically so I
can handle such things intelligently.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 08:36:20AM -0400, Joseph Machise wrote:
well dug until we get a new version of GW connect, and say the
hell with Microsoft do you have a hot key for answering a call
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lee" <dgl@...>
To: <skypeenglish@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] help with the new 8.3 version of
skype.


My experience says Ctrl+Shift+P never answered a call in Skype
8, but
that
if you happened to be displaying the same contact that called
you and you
typed Ctrl+Shift+P, Skype tried to initiate a call to that
person and
simply
connected to the incoming call as a result. This could easily
give the
illusion that Ctrl+Shift+P answers calls if you are testing the
feature
and thus are likely to be showing that exact contact when a call
arrives.

On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03:13PM +0200, Michele Barbi wrote:
I'll try ctrl+shift+p the next time I sign in on Skype and a
call
arrives,
I
only used it for starting a call. Anyway I can confirm ctrl+e
for ending
a
call, I tested it sometimes.
Bye!
Barbuz



--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"I forgot, because I wanted to forget, except I don't remember
forgetting." --Sarah Alawami




--
Doug Lee dgl@... http://www.dlee.org
Level Access doug.lee@...
http://www.LevelAccess.com
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a
man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln














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