I see you are speaking about respect in the same
phrases where you swear a lot. If I don't like a screen reader and I tell this,
it doesn't mean disrespect for that screen reader. It is surely very good for
others, but I just don't like it. That's all.
Or in your book is acceptable only the preference
of those who have the same preferences as yours?
Sarah said that She likes Skype 8 because it is
good for her and I said that I don't like it because it is not good for me, and
I also explained why.
This doesn't mean that
She is wrong, because I'm sure that for her it is OK. But this doesn't mean that
it should be the same for everyone.
You really show disrespect by using bad words
towards somebody that just tells that has other preferences or needs than
yours.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:38
AM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
wrong.
utterly, incontrovertibly wrong.
Read what sarah just said. and really I'm tired of seeing disrespect
towards a screenreader based on personal preference. that bullshit died years
ago quite frankly you were a voice of discord and discontent among the blinux
community about 15 years ago and you have yet to change.
and yes that was a direct slight against an individual. but it was and is
also the truth, and I will speak only the truth. now, back to my original
point.
in both JAWS and NVDA, you have quicknav keys for navigating a web page. if
you are familiar with using these keystrokes, you can just about navigate any
web site, or, any web interface. Skype 8, included.
Kindly cease and desist with the disparaging remarks and commentary because
that does nobody any good other than to brass people off and set them against
you, even if you are attempting to argue what might be to you, a valid point.
shooting down someone else's view point, or preference for screenreader,
moreover, shooting down the efforts of two people whose motis operandi is,
was, to provide a product comparable to what used to be known as the big
three, is the hight of disrespect and is utterly gauche, in my book.
Learn it, don't learn it. it's of no consequense to me, but don't sit here
and cry about it just because you can. it does nobody any favors.
On 10/08/2018 05:28, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
I think the easiness of usage of different
versions of a program can be partially measured by the number of keystrokes
and hotkeys needed to do a certain thing.
If the number of keypresses/hotkeys is for
example double, it means that the new version is twice as hard to use and
consumes more time and brain.
I don't know what's the situation of Skype 8
from this point of view.
If it requires fewer hotkeys *with JAWS*, not
NVDA, then yes, I think I might got used to it and consider it better after
a time of using it.
The ideal application is the one that doesn't
need to be used at all. :)
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 10:12
PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft
Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Wow, 2 hours? I downloaded skype 8 and learned on a youtube stream how
to use it in a matter of minutes.. It is jut like a web page and if you
use your quick nav keys un nvda or jaws ou will be able to get around the
interface lightning fast. They work well.
On 9 Aug 2018, at 11:25, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
The thing about Skype 8 is that I do not like it because it took me 2
hours to use it. I like Skype 7 because I have Windows 7 OS and no
offense, Windows 10 is hard to use, plus, the commands for Windows 10 is
way different than Windows 7. I am glad that someone have put their foot
down by telling MS that they can't DC Skype 7 because people are used to
it.
On 8/9/2018 12:53 PM, Octavian Rasnita
wrote:
"Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in
about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around.".
Oh yeah, but this is because you are great! Not all the people
are the same and not all of them use the computer for the same things.
:-)
I used Windows 7 for years, but I still hate it and consider it
less accessible than Windows XP.
Even now after so many years, it
is still very bad accessible with some applications like TextPad, or
MS DOS command prompt when comparing it with the same apps and screen
reader under Windows XP.
You said that you use NVDA. This means that probably you like it.
I don't. Actually I don't like the object navigation. I was sighted
and I want to have an experience as close as possible with the one
offered to the sighted that can have a visual perspective of the
entire screen without analysing each object and sub-object one by one.
Maybe with the style of NVDA Skype 8 is OK.
Window Eyes was a great screen reader many years ago, however for
the single reason that it enforced the users to use the horrible
numpad, I refused to use it. This was enough. Because I don't like to
use numpad at all for other things just typing digits. For other
people this might not be important at all.
However, Windows 7 has some stability improvements, so there
aren't just disadvantages.
But in Skype 8 I haven't heard about any
advantage yet.
This is why I said that Skype 8 is worse for me. It may be as
good as Skype 7 for you or others, or maybe even better, but this
doesn't make it better for me.
Our different opinions don't mean contradiction, but are based on
our different needs and preferences.
For me "learning" means a different thing than for you for
sure.
For me, learning means muscle learning, so I don't even need
to think how to use it.
If you ask me how I start chatting with
somebody on Skype, I'll need to stay a little and think all the steps
one by one, and I may not be able to tell you all the steps without
doing it. But when I really want to start chatting with somebody, I
know that I need to press Insert+F11 to open the list of apps in
System tray, and from that point on is just muscle memory, and I don't
remember all the steps, but I do it very fast, without needing to hear
too much from the screen reader. It is like the muscle memory needed
to type a text very fast, without thinking to every letter that you
need to type.
And well, unfortunately I'm not so good and I can't
change my way of working and re-learning all the hotkey combinations
to do what I want as fast as before just in 5 minutes.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2018 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Actualy skype 8 for windows is equally as good I learned it in
about maybe 5 minutes of just tinkering around. I use it every day
on my youtube streams. If you don’t believe me go to my youtube page. I can get around it
farily quickly with nvda.
On 7 Aug 2018, at 13:27, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
"just takes geting used to".
Yes, but this, and the fact that it doesn't have some
features that Skype 7 has, makes it worse than Skype 7. :)
Getting used to something means effort and time consumed, and
Skype 7 doesn't require this.
It is good to consume time to learn something new that helps,
but for the moment I've seen only missing features in Skype 8, not
new helpful things that we can do with it.
It would be great for example if it will have an API that can
be used for sending chat messages from programs.
I see you compare Skype 8 with the version for Mac, but most
Skype users use it under Windows and they will probably never
intend to use Mac, so for them is not helpful at all if Skype 8 is
similar with the one for Mac, or if the Mac style of using the
computer is more friendly with Skype 8, or anything Mac
related.
The truth is that Skype 8 is much worse accessible than Skype
7 when it is used under Windows with JAWS, and I guess that this
is the most used combination.
I don't know how easy is to use it with Windows 10 yet, but
from what I read from other blind Windows 10 users, Windows 10 is
not stable yet, and some updates can damage some things until the
next update, so this is also not very useful.
--Octavian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks,
Classic Skype Lives to See Another Day - Thurrott.com
Not true. I use it every day for my streams and my jobs. It
is 100 percent accessible and usable and just takes geting used
to, so give it a chance.
On 6 Aug 2018, at 20:34, Josephine Hirsch wrote:
new version of Skype really sucks, and is hard to use with
screenreaders regardless if you have any type of
impairment
On 8/6/2018 10:09 PM, Kimmie wrote:
Yeah I definitely put my feedback in there and told
them to get their act together.
This is really good
news.
It sounds like they’ve gotten some
seriously negative feedback on the new
version.
I’ve even heard from people with sight
that don’t like it.
Sent:
Monday, August 06, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject:
[skypeenglish] Microsoft Backtracks, Classic Skype Lives to
See Another Day - Thurrott.com
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